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Bucki1968

Elevated Greens?

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Just wondering what everyone thinks of elevated greens? My club has elevated greens and I guess over the years I have gotten used to them. Recently I played with a buddy of mine at his club (Sarasota area) and I noticed how much more I liked playing non-elevated greens. Up North (at least where I played) most courses did not have many elevated greens and it seems like it gave me more options around the greens, At my particular club, you can miss some greens and have very little chance of getting it up and down or even keeping it on the green.

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I don't have a problem with elevated greens. They are just another part of the course's challenges. I just adjust. 

Only change I might make is to put a lob wedge in my bag, so that when I missed the green, it was  easier to pop the ball up onto green, near the pin. 

I never complain about a course's playing conditions. I remember thinking how foolish it was when the professionals complained about courses being set up too hard. I never wanted to be like that as an amateur. 

There is a course out side of Ft Worth I use to play alot. (Rockwood?) It had a raised green after a slight dog leg. Par on that hole was almost impossible. Heck double bogie was a good score. 

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Im really not a fan of plateaued elevated greens. I think they're clownish and cheap. But other than that, it depends on the type of elevation and the shot. If the green is like 30 feet above you with 150+ in like it is sometimes on the 15th at Bethapge black, then no, I dont care for that either. But 10-15 foot elevation changes with thoughtful green complexes on short to medium shots is fun. Changes the eyelines and thought process for your shot.  

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I think that in many cases, elevating the greens is important to maintaining them, especially in wetter climates.   That might be the case where you are in Tampa.  In dryer climates, or in sandier soils, keeping the water draining away from the greens becomes less important.   I've seen really raised greens in Scotland and Ireland, simply built on natural knobs, and I've seen "punchbowl" greens too, built in natural depressions, so its not necessarily a result of changing trends.  Some architects consistently use elevated greens (I think of many Donald Ross courses, with balls rolling away in all directions.)  Others don't choose that approach (i.e. Crenshaw and Core at Dormie Club in Pinehurst, a number of greens just a tighter-mowed portion of fairway).  I'm a little like @Patch, they are what they are, its up to the golfer to figure out the best way to play each shot.  

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5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Some architects consistently use elevated greens (I think of many Donald Ross courses, with balls rolling away in all directions.) 

RTJ was another architect who raised his greens. While they are very large, missing them usually left you with a very difficult greenside play.
DR greens were also known to be very speedy and difficult to play greenside from what I recall the few of his courses I've played.

One was seldom left with a simple bump and run approach to most of their greens.
They definitely are a players course who has good ball striking skills.

I enjoyed the challenges and the various imaginative shots required at times to save strokes.

Any others you can think of Dave?
Arthur Hill and Arnie would give one several raised pedestals on a few courses. 

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8 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

Any others you can think of Dave?
Arthur Hill and Arnie would give one several raised pedestals on a few courses. 

I can't say I'm really familiar with a huge number of architects to single out a few more.  I guess when I think it over, I like a variety of green placements.  If every green is artificially elevated above surrounding flat terrain, I'm not excited.  That doesn't seem like really good architecture, although it can be the only smart way to build a course in that specific environment..  When some are up, some down a bit, some level, and when they fit with the terrain, that's what I prefer.  

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What constitutes as "elevated?"

In my area of NC, most greens are "elevated," in my opinion. My definition though is that the fringe is very often sloping down off the green. I believe it's mainly for drainage purposes. Very few are actually flat to sloping into the green level. 

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I am not a fan of elevated greens. They come with the game however. I have notices that some couirses go over board with them. One or two is fine,but lets don;t get  carried away.

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On 12/15/2017 at 11:03 AM, DaveP043 said:

I think that in many cases, elevating the greens is important to maintaining them, especially in wetter climates.   That might be the case where you are in Tampa.  In dryer climates, or in sandier soils, keeping the water draining away from the greens becomes less important. ... 

Sometimes you have elevated greens because of the general rise and fall of the land. Older courses, or public course built recently, may not be able to afford to move 10,000 cubic yards of soil to make a 150-yard par 3 level.

On 12/15/2017 at 10:59 AM, Groucho Valentine said:

Im really not a fan of plateaued elevated greens. I think they're clownish and cheap. But other than that, it depends on the type of elevation and the shot. ...

Often elevated greens require the golfer to make a blind - or partially blind - approach. I don't mind blind shots, but I don't like entirely blind holes where you never see the green until you're 20 yards away.

I get some blind approach shots at my home course, but I can at least see where the flag is as I walk off the tee box, before I get to the ball. Blind shots require you to have the hole's layout in your mind's eye before you hit.

A course near where my brother lives had "settled out funny" in the 50 years since it was built. The owners brought in some bulldozers to lessen runaway shots near the greens. Plus, four of the holes on the back nine were replaced and redesigned, in part to cut down severity of slope around the greens (and related erosion problems).

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23 hours ago, jkelley9 said:

What constitutes as "elevated?"

In my area of NC, most greens are "elevated," in my opinion. My definition though is that the fringe is very often sloping down off the green. I believe it's mainly for drainage purposes. Very few are actually flat to sloping into the green level. 

I never looked at green that sloped slowly from the fairway to the surface of the green as being elevated. A green you could run the ball up on to it. I see this type of green a high percentage of the time. 

Elevated to me is a green that raises abruptly up from the fairway. One that presents a sloping wall of sorts to the golfer. A green you would need to fly the ball on to, or maybe use a bump, and run shot, where the ball pops up on to the green. 

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1 minute ago, Patch said:

I never looked at green that sloped slowly from the fairway to the surface of the green as being elevated. A green you could run the ball up on to it. I see this type of green a high percentage of the time. 

Elevated to me is a green that raises abruptly up from the fairway. One that presents a sloping wall of sorts to the golfer. A green you would need to fly the ball on to, or maybe use a bump, and run shot, where the ball pops up on to the green. 

I'm still not sure I understand. Meaning I'm not sure if the greens I play are elevated or not. I consider them elevated, but maybe they're just regular.

The slope up to the greens isn't severe enough to where a flighted ball that hits the fringe will back up (assuming no spin) and roll down the slope. It'll usually stop pretty quickly. It'll roll SOME, but not all the way down the "steep" slope or something. But you usually won't putt through more than 2-3 feet. You'd want to chip (I would think), which I do. And I'm not scared to putt through fringe.

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18 hours ago, WUTiger said:

Sometimes you have elevated greens because of the general rise and fall of the land. Older courses, or public course built recently, may not be able to afford to move 10,000 cubic yards of soil to make a 150-yard par 3 level.

Often elevated greens require the golfer to make a blind - or partially blind - approach. I don't mind blind shots, but I don't like entirely blind holes where you never see the green until you're 20 yards away.

I get some blind approach shots at my home course, but I can at least see where the flag is as I walk off the tee box, before I get to the ball. Blind shots require you to have the hole's layout in your mind's eye before you hit.

A course near where my brother lives had "settled out funny" in the 50 years since it was built. The owners brought in some bulldozers to lessen runaway shots near the greens. Plus, four of the holes on the back nine were replaced and redesigned, in part to cut down severity of slope around the greens (and related erosion problems).

I know what you mean. Thats something i also don't like about severely elevated greens. It feels like you're throwing a tennis ball on roof and trying to get it to stay in a certain place. 

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On 15/12/2017 at 11:04 PM, saevel25 said:

I have no issue with them. As long as a course isn't filled with them the it's OK. I like variety. 

This

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