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NM Golf

Why the hurry?

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10 hours ago, NM Golf said:

Again, why? If I go to get a hour long massage I don't hope its over in 45 minutes. If I got to a New Years Eve party with friends I don't hope I can get out of there by 11:00pm. If I go to an amusement park with my kids I don't rush them out the gate after 3:40ish. I am enjoying myself, and therefor see no need to be done quickly.

 

4 to 4 1/2 hours is the mark set by every golf course I have ever played including the course where I work. So why would I want to play faster? Why would I want something I enjoy doing so much to be over sooner than it needs to be? 

 

By the same argument, you would prefer a 6 hour round.

If I want to spend more time on the course, I'll simply play more.

 

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I don't ever think about how long it takes to play 18 holes.  It just is what it is, for that round. Of course there have been times I only had 2-3 hours to spend golfing. What ever number of holes I played, less than 18, was fine to keep a schedule.

What I find interesting about this thread is that the different opinions being shared, on say a 3.5 hour round, versus a 5 hour round, is only something like 5 minutes per hole, on average. 

Obviously an extra 5 minutes a hole, over 18 holes equals a big chunk of time. I will admit I am probably looking at this all wrong time wise, but 5+/-  minutes per hole doesn't seem like alot. 

 

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On 1/11/2018 at 1:33 PM, NM Golf said:

 jog around the course in order to play in 3 hours. 

a good 4 hour round is perfect.

I don't really want to be done in 3 hours

1) no need to jog. Play 9 in 1.5 hrs is reasonable

2) says you. Others say 3 hrs is perfect

3) what about those that do? Why should they be put out because you want to play slow?

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A four hour round maintains a decent rhythm for a foursome. If I want to spend more time at the course I’ll play 27 holes.

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36 minutes ago, colin007 said:

1) no need to jog. Play 9 in 1.5 hrs is reasonable

2) says you. Others say 3 hrs is perfect

3) what about those that do? Why should they be put out because you want to play slow?

1. As you said for you. Maybe even for me dependent on the situation. 

2. I think in my original post I said for me. 

3. Trust me I’m not holding anyone up, that’s a ridiculous comment meant to elicit a combative response. 4 hours as a walking foursome is far from slow. 

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8 hours ago, NM Golf said:

3) Trust me I’m not holding anyone up, that’s a ridiculous comment meant to elicit a combative response. 4 hours as a walking foursome is far from slow. 

I play all the time as a single paired up with other groups, so this is a cross section of random people I don't know. Whenever it takes 4 hrs, we are waiting on groups, hence what I would consider slow paced.

How can you say that you don't hold people up? If 4 hrs is your pace and 3 hrs is other's, then you'd have to be holding them up at some point no?

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As long as I'm not waiting around for a long time, I'm fine with it. This includes players in my own group. I don't rush, but I'm pretty efficient; I walk off ahead of other people to find my ball and stuff.

It's not about the time spent playing golf, it's about the enjoyment. Long rounds are not enjoyable. If I wanted to avoid going home early, there are plenty of things I can find to kill some time.

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Part of the problem with slow play is shown in this thread: slow golfers do not believe they are slow.

We might as well beat our head against a brick wall as to tell a slow golfer we don't run, sprint, jog or even walk fast in order to play a 6400 yard course in 3hrs as a fourball.

We are ready to play when it is our turn. We take clubs we need so we don't backtrack. We finish up short putts without marking them first. We play ready golf. If a guy blades one out of the bunker the others will putt out while he is making his way across the green. We do our chatting as we are walking or riding to our ball (or while on the tee box watching 4 guys go to one ball at a time). In a fast group nobody is just standing around slack jawed staring at their partners. 

 

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If a twosome or by myself and course open then I easily tear through in around 2.5 hours with my push cart but expecting to get through less than 4 hours on my course with bunch of foursomes is setting up for mood ruin.

I don't think I have ever played a course where default pace is 3 hours. Maybe there are cliques out there that might have this general pace but reality is that on 99 percent courses it's just not going to happen. 

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Just going by what a quick search on averages came up with.

A group of professionals will play at 10 minutes per hole, or around three hours for 18. Now I have walked with professionals quite a few times at pga tournaments as a spectator. They take longer than 3 hours.

The same search said a group of amateurs will take, on average, 15 minutes a hole, or 4.5 hours. So as an amateur, the golfer should expect, on an average day, to spend 4-5 hours on a golf course.

Neither group was defined as a twosome, or as a foursome. I also suspect if I searched for more info,  the 10/15 minute per hole numbers could have been different, based on who, where, and when the testing was taken. 

I don't play on weekends (very often) to avoid slower play. More golfers on those Friday - Sunday days means longer play times. Tuesday - Thursday gets most of my play. Less people golfing on those days means quicker rounds. 

Just throwing a few numbers out here, since I am doing this my head, where, like others, my own brain farts originate from. Let's say a swing takes 2 seconds (I know it's less) from starting back,  to the follow through finish. Let's say I shoot an 80. That's 160 seconds of swinging/stroking a ball. That's 2 minutes, and 40 seconds of playing golf. In a 4 hour round, that leaves 3:57:20 of not swinging a club. 

My point is,  that in a 4 hour round there is going to be a lot non golf time spent, walking to the next shot, and even standing around befor the next shot. The walking, and standing around is another part of one's golf game. How much walking or standing around that takes place,  should not cause a golfer any grief, that would negatively impact their game/score.

I'm done rambling on........ 

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1 hour ago, colin007 said:

I play all the time as a single paired up with other groups, so this is a cross section of random people I don't know. Whenever it takes 4 hrs, we are waiting on groups, hence what I would consider slow paced.

How can you say that you don't hold people up? If 4 hrs is your pace and 3 hrs is other's, then you'd have to be holding them up at some point no?

Saying a 4 hour round is holding up a 3 hour round is no different than saying a 3 hour round is rushing a 4 hour round. Both scenarios are causing one group or the other scoring grief. Just a thought.

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10 minutes ago, Patch said:

Saying a 4 hour round is holding up a 3 hour round is no different than saying a 3 hour round is rushing a 4 hour round. Both scenarios are causing one group or the other scoring grief. Just a thought.

But you and I know both know what a 4 hr group should do if a 3 hr group comes up behind them.

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1 hour ago, Shooting29 said:

Part of the problem with slow play is shown in this thread: slow golfers do not believe they are slow.

We might as well beat our head against a brick wall as to tell a slow golfer we don't run, sprint, jog or even walk fast in order to play a 6400 yard course in 3hrs as a fourball.

We are ready to play when it is our turn. We take clubs we need so we don't backtrack. We finish up short putts without marking them first. We play ready golf. If a guy blades one out of the bunker the others will putt out while he is making his way across the green. We do our chatting as we are walking or riding to our ball (or while on the tee box watching 4 guys go to one ball at a time). In a fast group nobody is just standing around slack jawed staring at their partners. 

 

Most of us don't see 3 hours for 18 holes as being a reasonable pace.  You are clearly there for no other reason than to play golf as fast as you can.    You can't possibly do much in the way of interacting with your companions at that pace.  Golf has historically been a mix of friendly competition and social interaction.  That doesn't have to mean that you stand around for 5 minutes chatting while others wait, but it also doesn't have to be each player focused solely on his own game, lost in his own little bubble where nothing else penetrates.  When you see the preponderance of comments stating that a 3 hour round is being a bit ridiculous, then you might actually realize that you are the one who is out of step with reality. 

I can only think of once in my life that I managed to play 18 holes in under 3 hours, and even then it was just barely under.  That was 2 of us playing (both about 12 handicap), each in his own cart, and we never had another group to play through.  We played fast, but still only made it in about 2:45.  That was a breezy winter day in Denver and conditions were just about perfect for trouble free golf, we were both typically experienced and efficient players, and we didn't dawdle because it was chilly and we were trying to beat the early winter sunset. 

My experiences like that indicate to me that playing 3 hour golf is not a relaxing exercise, but is no more than an attempt to play as fast as you possibly can, and that isn't all that enjoyable for me. I don't think that there is a good reason for playing slower than 4-4:15 unless it is simply due to a busy course, but I'm willing to accept that some courses are actually planned for 4:30, and as such they tend to play even slower than that for the average player.   Don't mistake me for a slow play advocate, but I also don't favor speed golf either.  3:30 is certainly doable for most experienced players, even for bogey golfers, but that implies never getting into trouble (or being loose with the rules when you do), and that sort of mistake free golf just isn't going to happen very often in a typical foursome.

4 minutes ago, colin007 said:

But you and I know both know what a 4 hr group should do if a 3 hr group comes up behind them.

Except that the correct procedure is rarely possible on the courses I play most often.

Edited by Fourputt

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I've explained how it's done. Continue in your bubble that we must be running, not conversing, frantic and only focused on ourselves.

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I think its fine to get in a 3 hour round if possible.  But It might have happened once or twice in my lifetime with a foursome and the conditions and play allowed that to happen.  Short couse, and all of us playing well, extra golf cart was used, etc.  

In a typical foursome of even single digit handicap golfers, it is unlikely everyone is going to land on the fairway and everyone is going to be on in reg.  Most of the time at least one of the players is going to be hitting from the rough and one person will be off the green.  I would say that it is very difficult for a foursome to play in less than 4 hours and take the game seriously enough.  

 

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26 minutes ago, Shooting29 said:

I've explained how it's done. Continue in your bubble that we must be running, not conversing, frantic and only focused on ourselves.

I do all of those things you mention too. and I still don't play in 3 hours.  Of course, I also average 18-20 strokes more per round than you do, and so do most of the guys I play with these days.  Even figuring just 45 seconds per stroke for getting distance, picking club, evaluating conditions, then making the stroke, that's 15 minutes per round per player.  Now suddenly we have arrived at the 4 hour round that most of us feel is a reasonable target.   

As often as possible I do those preshot tasks when others are playing, to the point of actually making my swing before the previous player's ball has stopped rolling.  Even though I try to be as efficient as possible, I can't always do that because of relative ball positions.  And it's unfortunate, but not all players are even aware of being able to do that.  Too many still worry more about who's away than they do about pace of play.  

Even with the most aware and focused players, 3 hours for 18 holes is going to be a rare occurrence.  Whether it's due to other groups holding them up or due to their own imperfect golf, 3½ hours is still always going to be a great time for just about any foursome on the course.

Edited by Fourputt

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2 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

I think its fine to get in a 3 hour round if possible.  But It might have happened once or twice in my lifetime with a foursome and the conditions and play allowed that to happen.  Short couse, and all of us playing well, extra golf cart was used, etc.  

In a typical foursome of even single digit handicap golfers, it is unlikely everyone is going to land on the fairway and everyone is going to be on in reg.  Most of the time at least one of the players is going to be hitting from the rough and one person will be off the green.  I would say that it is very difficult for a foursome to play in less than 4 hours and take the game seriously enough.  

 

We played as a 6-some, yeah, 6 yesterday.  Obviously a pretty open course later in the day.... 

Handicaps ranged from 5  to 14 and we were in carts.  No "extra carts though.  Each pair played a match against the other 2 pairs, so there wasn't a whole lot of picking up or given putts.  Gross scores ranged from 78 to 89, so there weren't a whole lot of GIR's in the group.  We finished in 3:50, and I assure you, we weren't trying to get done in any special time.  Efficient, ready golf...

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