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JB Holmes - "Undue Delay"?


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I'm no rules expert, but based on the text of rule 6-7, could JB have been penalized for failing to play without undue delay?

The rule:  "The player must play without undue delay and in accordance with any pace of play guidelines that the Committee may establish. Between completion of a hole and playing from the next teeing ground, the player must not unduly delay play.”

It does not say to play without undue delay "or" in accordance with pace of play.  It says "and".  That suggests, at least this uninformed observer, that you you both have to play without undue delay (admittedly subjective) and you need to adhere to pace of play guidelines.  He failed on the former, I'd think.  

Am I reading this correctly?

I understand the Tour doesn't enforce this regularly, but if it did it would have been consistent with the rules, no? 

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@TheZoid-Just curious-How long would you have let JB stand there doing nothing before you penalized him? Where is your subjective line drawn?

The rule is not vague - in that you are wrong right from the start.  The rule is specific in that it instructs the club or committee to set a standard based on their own needs.  It allows them to be v

Masocist But here it is http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/12232/11227747/pga-tour-players-slam-slow-play-after-six-hour-round-at-torrey-pines

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I think he should have been penalized, and maybe on the European Tour, he would have been.

But the PGA Tour is too soft.

One of his fellow competitors could have penalized him, or at least attempted to, pending the discussion that would no doubt ensue in the scoring tent twelve minutes later.

I'd have probably not penalized him, were I Noren (the PGA Tour is too close-knit and has too many unwritten rules about calling out fellow competitors; it sucks, but it's the way it is), but I'd have said "if you pull that shit again I'm slapping a penalty on you and everyone else will back me in that."

It's a small part of the RO's job to penalize a player in such a case, IMO, so that the fellow competitor doesn't have to be the one to do it.

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I was wondering the same thing. That has to be an undue delay. The announcers were starting to run out of things to say. 

The even more irritating thing about the whole ordeal was the fact that Ryan Palmer wasn't exactly rushing through his turn, so JB had a couple minutes to think about it when Palmer was hitting.  And before anyone says it I know JB isn't on the clock until after Palmer hits, but my god man, do you just stand there next to your ball slack jawed staring into space until Palmer pulls the trigger? You've been on the course for nearly 6 hours you don't start thinking about your shot until it's your turn? Noren was thinking about his shot prior to his turn because he already had a club pulled and ready to go once JB pulled his head out.

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8 hours ago, NM Golf said:

The announcers were starting to run out of things to say. 

I'm inclined to say that's a good thing.  Except they'll keep talking anyway.

8 hours ago, tdiii said:

What if he'd waited 10 minutes?  Would the PGA have penalized him then? 

You NO the answer to that already.

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56 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Really!? Matt Adams thinks Alex Noren could have played through? Who is this guy? Stop making excuses for J.B. Holmes, he was slow...period.

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22 hours ago, NM Golf said:

 The announcers were starting to run out of things to say.

Based on the really stupid junk they were saying for 4 days in a row, I think we all know that's not true....

 

However, for the Euro announcers, even forgiving the complete disregard of pronunciation, they actually got into an annoyed snit with each other about who sang the Gambler.  So maybe this time the Local crew did better?????

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12 minutes ago, iacas said:

If you recorded the telecast (plus 30 minutes), you could have done that.

OMG, I can't believe that was televised? I hope someone does something to speed things up. I'd really hate to have been his playing partners. . .

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4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

OMG, I can't believe that was televised?

Huh? It was live. He was in the last group.

I don't understand you sometimes, man.

Why do you think so many people are upset about this? On Twitter, Facebook, here, in the real world… etc.?

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31 minutes ago, Lihu said:

OMG, I can't believe that was televised? I hope someone does something to speed things up. I'd really hate to have been his playing partners. . .

Sorry...but...wtf? You mean why didn’t they break for a 4 minute commercial? What did I miss here @Lihu?

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9 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Sorry...but...wtf? You mean why didn’t they break for a 4 minute commercial? What did I miss here @Lihu?

Yes, exactly. Why would anyone televise something like that? :-D

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58 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Yes, exactly. Why would anyone televise something like that? :-D

Well I am sure, just like everyone else, they believed that he wouldn't take 4+ minutes to pull the trigger. It's not like in the NFL when someone calls a timeout and they know exactly how long it will take to resume play. J.B. Holmes basically called a neverending timeout. The announcers and the viewing public just got stuck there watching the whole debacle unfold. At that point in a tournament the broadcasts only break while the players walk to their next shots.

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1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

Well I am sure, just like everyone else, they believed that he wouldn't take 4+ minutes to pull the trigger. It's not like in the NFL when someone calls a timeout and they know exactly how long it will take to resume play. J.B. Holmes basically called a neverending timeout. The announcers and the viewing public just got stuck there watching the whole debacle unfold. At that point in a tournament the broadcasts only break while the players walk to their next shots.

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. In this case we were literally watching his behind. :-D

I think delayed programming is best, they could just delay by 1 minute or something so they can switch to something else then back again as they actually take their shots.

Well, I don't watch TV so I don't know what's interesting to the typical viewer anyway. I watch Netflix, but can fast forward through stuff I don't like.

 

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  • iacas changed the title to JB Holmes - "Undue Delay"?
Note: This thread is 1117 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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