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Wanna feel depressed? Start tracking your Strokes Gained


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I started tracking my Strokes Gained in a spreadsheet for my past four rounds and here are my averages (I was a 6 hcp, now up to a 9):

Tee:  -3.19
Approach:  -7.06
Short:  -0.93
Putting:  -1.67 (I've been missing 3-6 footers lately)
Recover:  -0.94

Wow.  I knew my ball striking was bad, but not this bad.  Yesterday I hit two tee balls OB, plus chunked an iron off the tee on a par 3.  Wow.  I guess the old adage "the best way to improve is to work on your short game" doesn't really apply to me.

I've taken numerous lessons from different coaches trying to improve, but seems like I only get worse <sigh>.

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8 minutes ago, edhalsim said:

I guess the old adage "the best way to improve is to work on your short game" doesn't really apply to me.

That saying doesnt apply to most golfers and thats definitely not the saying around here. Far from it. 

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28 minutes ago, edhalsim said:

.  Wow.  I guess the old adage "the best way to improve is to work on your short game" doesn't really apply to me.

 

It is an old adage and one that’s been proven incorrect as well. I like your strokes gained data, even more statistical proof the long game is more important. 

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30 minutes ago, edhalsim said:

I started tracking my Strokes Gained in a spreadsheet for my past four rounds and here are my averages (I was a 6 hcp, now up to a 9):

Tee:  -3.19
Approach:  -7.06
Short:  -0.93
Putting:  -1.67 (I've been missing 3-6 footers lately)
Recover:  -0.94

Wow.  I knew my ball striking was bad, but not this bad.  Yesterday I hit two tee balls OB, plus chunked an iron off the tee on a par 3.  Wow.  I guess the old adage "the best way to improve is to work on your short game" doesn't really apply to me.

I've taken numerous lessons from different coaches trying to improve, but seems like I only get worse <sigh>.

Is this strokes gained in relation to scratch?  Game Golf will allow a user to compare strokes gained/lost  to different handicaps.

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1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

Is this strokes gained in relation to scratch?  Game Golf will allow a user to compare strokes gained/lost  to different handicaps.

All I have are numbers pertaining to Tour average.  Naturally you'd expect all numbers to be negative, it's just to what degree.  It would be nice to have numbers for different handicap levels.

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3 hours ago, edhalsim said:

I started tracking my Strokes Gained in a spreadsheet for my past four rounds and here are my averages (I was a 6 hcp, now up to a 9):

Tee:  -3.19
Approach:  -7.06

Short:  -0.93
Putting:  -1.67 (I've been missing 3-6 footers lately)
Recover:  -0.94

Wow.  I knew my ball striking was bad, but not this bad.  Yesterday I hit two tee balls OB, plus chunked an iron off the tee on a par 3.  Wow.  I guess the old adage "the best way to improve is to work on your short game" doesn't really apply to me.

I've taken numerous lessons from different coaches trying to improve, but seems like I only get worse <sigh>.

1

And yet, people will still try to make the argument that PGA tour players are superior putters to the common man. They just hit it closer from further out. 

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I have worked with a couple guys on their strokes gained estimates here: 

https://thesandtrap.com/b/the_numbers_game

The two most recent articles there show numbers for @Slowcelica and @Fairway_CY.  Fair to say your results are a bit more extreme than theirs, but similar conclusion: majority of strokes for many of us tend to be with full swing.

What method did you use? A tool on the market or just your own spreadsheet?

I’ve found the whole thing isn’t an exact science and there’s lots of fudge in the numbers. Different tools can give varying results.

Also, I toss out the “recovery” strokes and try to analyze the prior shot that made you even be in a position to make a recovery shot. I bet that some of the 1 stroke you lost in recovery could actually be improved by working on your full swing, rather than practicing different recovery shot scenarios  

 

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1 hour ago, RandallT said:

What method did you use? A tool on the market or just your own spreadsheet?

Also, I toss out the “recovery” strokes and try to analyze the prior shot that made you even be in a position to make a recovery shot. I bet that some of the 1 stroke you lost in recovery could actually be improved by working on your full swing, rather than practicing different recovery shot scenarios  

 

Spreadsheet I found online.

I agree with your assessment of recovery strokes.  I just need to stop hitting drives OB and into the trees.  Driver used to be my go-to club.

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1 hour ago, kpaulhus said:

And yet, people will still try to make the argument that PGA tour players are superior putters to the common man. They just hit it closer from further out. 

Right. Once in a while, the common man may even gain strokes on Tour putting.

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This thread made me kinda wonder....is there any good PGA ballstriker who is held back by consistent bad putting? (Relative to the Tour of course?)

 

I guess Im basically who has the biggest spread between tee and approach and putting.

Edited by cutchemist42
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Best and worse putters on the PGA Tour

 

10 best putters on the PGA Tour

  1. 1. Michael Thompson -- 0.84 strokes gained per round
  2. 2. Rickie Fowler -- 0.761 strokes gained per round
  3. 3. Luke Donald -- 0.704 strokes gained per round
  4. 4. Graeme McDowell -- 0.576 strokes gained per round
  5. 5. Brian Harman -- 0.542 strokes gained per round
  6. 6. Jonas Blixt -- 0.536 strokes gained per round
  7. 7. Patrick Reed -- 0.511 strokes gained per round
  8. 8. Mac Hughes -- 0.492 strokes gained per round
  9. 9. Gonzalo Fernandez-Castaño -- 0.489 strokes gained per round
  10. 10. Shane Lowry -- 0.488 strokes gained per round

10 worst putters on the PGA Tour

  1. 181. Robert Garrigus -- -0.456 strokes gained per round
  2. 182. Brett Drewitt -- -0.457 strokes gained per round
  3. 183. Scott Piercy -- -0.462 strokes gained per round
  4. 184. Jason Kokrak -- -0.468 strokes gained per round
  5. 185. D.A. Points -- -0.478 strokes gained per round
  6. 186. Brett Stegmaier -- -0.514 strokes gained per round
  7. 187. Rod Pampling -- -0.518 strokes gained per round
  8. 188. Brad Fritsch -- -0.596 strokes gained per round
  9. 189. Boo Weekley -- -0.954 strokes gained per round
  10. 190. Ryan Palmer -- -1.066 strokes gained per round
Edited by dennyjones
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20 hours ago, kpaulhus said:

And yet, people will still try to make the argument that PGA tour players are superior putters to the common man. They just hit it closer from further out. 

well, I get your point here, but it's a bit of an exaggeration.   Just looking at Ed's numbers, he's -1.67 strokes gained putting and he's a 7 handicap.  he's typically losing 2 strokes per round on the putting green compared to a tour putter.   PGA players are superior putters to the common man.  But, that superiority doesn't create nearly as many strokes as their superiority off the tee.  

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4 minutes ago, lastings said:

PGA players are superior putters to the common man.  

Not by much. There are people on this site that are just as good, if not better at putting than some PGA tour players.

If by "common man" you mean someone that has never played golf or putted before, then sure. If by "common man" you mean anyone that plays golf that is considered an amateur, then I dont agree. Putting is not a hard skill, and PGA players don't make as many putts as most people think.

The lowest average of putts per round in 2017 was 28.13 (1.55 putts per hole). The highest average putts per round was 30.42 (1.66 putts per hole). I have seen numerous people's GameGolf profiles that are in the 1.6 range for number of average putts. And they are on lower quality greens compared to PGA tour greens.  

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Given the number of GIR that tour players are hitting, 1.66 putts per hole is quite exceptional.  that said, putts per round (or, putts per hole) is a pretty flawed stat.   it gives golfers that don't hit green an advantage.  putts per GIR would be more accurate.  strokes gained putting more accurate still.   PGA tour players are better putters.  There's really no denying it.   But, if a 10 handicap wanted to improve any portion of their game to a tour level, they would have the easiest time if they chose putting.  

by common man, I am referring to an 8-15 handicap type of golfer.  

7 minutes ago, klineka said:

And they are on lower quality greens compared to PGA tour greens.  

while Tour greens help tour level putters, this would be a severe hindrance to most 10 handicappers.   greens are much, much faster.   meaning more break, the need for better reads and mistakes are punished more by poor putts ending up further from the hole.  

last year the tour average on 8 ft putts was 46%.   i would be shocked to find that the average 10 handicap is making over 15% of these.  

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15 minutes ago, lastings said:

Given the number of GIR that tour players are hitting, 1.66 putts per hole is quite exceptional.  that said, putts per round (or, putts per hole) is a pretty flawed stat.   it gives golfers that don't hit green an advantage.  putts per GIR would be more accurate.  strokes gained putting more accurate still.   PGA tour players are better putters.  There's really no denying it.   But, if a 10 handicap wanted to improve any portion of their game to a tour level, they would have the easiest time if they chose putting.  

by common man, I am referring to an 8-15 handicap type of golfer.  

while Tour greens help tour level putters, this would be a severe hindrance to most 10 handicappers.   greens are much, much faster.   meaning more break, the need for better reads and mistakes are punished more by poor putts ending up further from the hole.  

last year the tour average on 8 ft putts was 46%.   i would be shocked to find that the average 10 handicap is making over 15% of these.  

You're probably right.

I make about 48% of my 6 footers, but miss almost all of my 8 footers and my miss is a lot worse the farther I go out. There's definitely something missing in my ability to putt. My current average is around 38 putts per round, but I was at least 4 strokes better when I was playing at least 9 holes a day.

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1 minute ago, lastings said:

putts by handicap.gif

You cant use this to support your argument when you just told me putts per round is a flawed stat. (Although I do agree that it is a flawed stat to an extent.)

 

 

25 minutes ago, lastings said:

while Tour greens help tour level putters, this would be a severe hindrance to most 10 handicappers.   greens are much, much faster.   meaning more break, the need for better reads and mistakes are punished more by poor putts ending up further from the hole.  

This simply isnt true. As was discussed somewhat in this thread and as Erik mentioned on post #33 in that thread, "Yet people of all ability levels (I think the studies included only people that can break 100) putt better on faster greens."

The ball is traveling slower on faster greens so the capture size of the hole increases which means more putts should be made on faster greens compared to slower greens.

 

I'm not trying to say that amateurs are better putters than PGA players, I'm just saying the difference isn't as large as most people think.

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