Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
GJT

Handicap-Forward vs Back Tee Box

Note: This thread is 828 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

23 posts / 2178 viewsLast Reply

Recommended Posts

Assertion:

Theoretically, a handicap index should work out to be similar, whether or not you play the forward or back tee box. 

I subscribe to the “Tee it Forward” concept. It makes sense in many ways-except perhaps your ego. But I have noticed that I tend to play and score better when I play a shorter course. (Eg: 5500 vs 6000 yds)

This makes no sense to me. Either the rating for 5500 yds is too low or the rating for 6000 yds is too high.

Discuss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The different tee will have a different slope and rating.   The forward tees are usually easier because the longer irons don't come into play as often.   If you read "Lowest Score Wins", you see that @iacas has statistical proof that it is easier to score from a closer distance.    Just an example....If you play from the forward tees at 5500 yards and hit your driver 200 yards, you may have 130 yards to the green.   It's easier to hit that shot than a longer shot of 170 if you hit from the back tees.   

Grab the book, it will change your game.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I have to assume you're playing under the USGA system (that's a hint for you to fill out your profile, let us know where you are, and maybe your handicap level).  It that's right, take a look at your differentials.  You can calculate these for each round as

(Adjusted Score - Course rating) times 113 / Course Slope Rating

You may find that when corrected for slope and CR, your differentials are pretty similar.  If there is still a significant trend to lower differentials for one tee as compared to the other, the ratings may indeed need adjustment.  On the other hand, different lengths affect people differently, so you may just be at one end of a spectrum, while other players differentials are lower from the long tees.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I sometimes will play from the ladies tees as tournament prep just to get myself into a scoring mindset instead of a defensive one. The game is alot more fun when you're not punishing yourself by playing from longer distances all the time. But I've found the what tee should be played has more do with with skill than how far a players hits it. Ive played with many of player who don't regularly drive the ball 250 that get around 7000-7200 yard courses just fine. I barley drive the ball 280 and I've played the US Open tees at Bethapage Black without too much struggle. But i wouldn't want to play with a 20 handi that drives the ball 300 from back there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think that it is very course dependent for most people. If a course has a lot of forced carries or really tough angles from the back tees then Incould see how that would actually have a negative impact on someone’s handicap that prefers shorter courses or has a higher handicap in general. For example: I prefer courses around 6300 yards. One course I play is 6600, and I have not problem shooting my handicap or better there. However, another course I have played multiple times is 6500 yards and the continuous forced carries and angles off the tee box drive my game crazy. I prefer to tee it forward there even though it’s only 6000 yards from the forward men’s box. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I can think of a few holes on which moving up brings hazards into play that are not reachable from farther back.  In those cases; teeing forward requires greater precision off the tee...or less club...which defeats the purpose of moving up.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, GJT said:

Assertion:

Theoretically, a handicap index should work out to be similar, whether or not you play the forward or back tee box. 

I subscribe to the “Tee it Forward” concept. It makes sense in many ways-except perhaps your ego. But I have noticed that I tend to play and score better when I play a shorter course. (Eg: 5500 vs 6000 yds)

This makes no sense to me. Either the rating for 5500 yds is too low or the rating for 6000 yds is too high.

Discuss

Assuming you're already shooting in the 80s low mid or high, it really just depends upon how far you hit.

A couple guys I played with this last week said they wouldn't play the blue tees until they shoot 75 off the whites. For them, it probably makes a lot of sense. For a longer hitter with a horrible short game, it might not make any sense.

I think it really depends upon the golfer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On an oddly-related note, our league has a Back In Black (AC/DC) tribute night where we play from the way back, (black) tees.  Everyone complains about the added distance to cover but our league scoring guy indicates that in general, the raw gross numbers barely increase on that night.

Note: I'm one of the complainers even though scoring from the black tees isn't affected for some strange reason.  We keep our usual hdcp numbers even though the course slope/rating is much different from the black tee boxes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I have to assume you're playing under the USGA system (that's a hint for you to fill out your profile, let us know where you are, and maybe your handicap level).  It that's right, take a look at your differentials.  You can calculate these for each round as

(Adjusted Score - Course rating) times 113 / Course Slope Rating

You may find that when corrected for slope and CR, your differentials are pretty similar.  If there is still a significant trend to lower differentials for one tee as compared to the other, the ratings may indeed need adjustment.  On the other hand, different lengths affect people differently, so you may just be at one end of a spectrum, while other players differentials are lower from the long tees.  

Yes I track my handicap as you have noted. I have data for about 10 years and have noticed that my gross and differentials are 1-3 strokes better on shorter course. In fact my handicap (23) is 20 on the shorter course. So, as others have commented, it may just be distance. But I am surprised that actual playing difficulty (bunkers, water, narrowness of fairway etc etc) is not factored into the slope factor. Oh well...

3 hours ago, dave s said:

On an oddly-related note, our league has a Back In Black (AC/DC) tribute night where we play from the way back, (black) tees.  Everyone complains about the added distance to cover but our league scoring guy indicates that in general, the raw gross numbers barely increase on that night.

Note: I'm one of the complainers even though scoring from the black tees isn't affected for some strange reason.  We keep our usual hdcp numbers even though the course slope/rating is much different from the black tee boxes.

This is interesting. Perhaps the collective “go for it” attitude is in play here. Like Yogi Berra used to say...”90% of sports is half mental” :)

5 hours ago, Piz said:

I can think of a few holes on which moving up brings hazards into play that are not reachable from farther back.  In those cases; teeing forward requires greater precision off the tee...or less club...which defeats the purpose of moving up.  

Oh yah. I agree that sometimes hazards come into play that would otherwise be avoidable. Don’t you hate it when you “play it safe” and still screw up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, iacas said:

As others have said, @GJT, are you judging just by the scores, or the actual differentials?

What are the ratings/slopes from the two tees?

I am talking about both actually. I score 3-5 strokes lower and my handicap on the shorter courses is 1-2 points lower. I have data going back about 10 years. My distance off the tee is my biggest concern, so the shorter courses gives me a chance to make fewer errors approaching the green. I guess length really is king in this game. Thanks 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GJT said:

I am talking about both actually. I score 3-5 strokes lower and my handicap on the shorter courses is 1-2 points lower. I have data going back about 10 years. My distance off the tee is my biggest concern, so the shorter courses gives me a chance to make fewer errors approaching the green. I guess length really is king in this game. Thanks 

The handicapping system does what it can, but there are always going to be courses favored by some kinds of players over others, tees that favor certain kinds of players - even of the same handicap index - over others, etc.

For a system that has only two numbers - the rating and the slope - it does a pretty good job, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I did a quick search and found the following info on how the USGA determines a course slope factor. It is a good explanation:

https://www.thoughtco.com/usga-course-and-slope-rating-1561294

The article states:

Course rating used to be based almost solely on length. The longer the course, the higher the rating. But obstacles (degree of difficulty), in addition to distance, are now part of the consideration”.

Who knew? Thanks all for your comments.

Edited by GJT
Link error

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, GJT said:

Who knew?

A ton of us.

I've been a course rater for about 12 years, and captain of my team for the last three.

It's course rating and slope. 72.3/132. Those two numbers (not specifically those two numbers) are usually on the scorecard, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

If I'm incorrect please say so, but at one time I thought a component of the course rating was the course's "resistance to scoring". I've heard any number of brain dead sports talk show hosts comment that there is "nobody" playing defense against the golfer! Never mind that the course plays it's own defense!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

5 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

If I'm incorrect please say so, but at one time I thought a component of the course rating was the course's "resistance to scoring". I've heard any number of brain dead sports talk show hosts comment that there is "nobody" playing defense against the golfer! Never mind that the course plays it's own defense!

I think you're confusing a course's rating in "Top 100" lists with the "course rating" for handicaps.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-our-panel-ranks-the-courses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

11 hours ago, iacas said:

A ton of us.

I've been a course rater for about 12 years, and captain of my team for the last three.

It's course rating and slope. 72.3/132. Those two numbers (not specifically those two numbers) are usually on the scorecard, etc.

What a great job! Just the guy I want to talk to :)

When you assign slope/rating to a course how do you account for various pin placements? Some of these can be diabolical...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note: This thread is 828 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Affiliates

    SuperSpeed
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo
  • Posts

    • Swing looks great.
    • Haven’t practiced in a while. Got into a little bit of a funk there. Been playing poorly lately; was going to pack away the clubs for the winter but I committed to an outing for some reason so I’m going to make the best of it 😃 First swings weren’t great. Might have figured out the main issue, though. Backswing stuff, inconsistent club head position at transition. Leads to lots of randomness. Started rehearsing A4 and then slowly bringing the club back to the same position, feeling that I’m set there (kind of a pause or slight delay), and then firing hard.   I posted the swings at real speed because I wanted to see the backswing at real speed. Feels slow to me but isn’t, and I’m not surprised there’s no actual pause at transition. Hit the ball really well like this though, which is promising.
    • Played 18 yesterday. Didn't score well due to some lapses in my priority piece on the course and associated penalty strokes. When I executed the swing I worked on in my lesson and recent practice sessions (mainly the takeaway/backswing), the ball was going where I aimed it. Short and mid irons were straight, maybe with a touch of fade or draw to them. Longer clubs were a little bit of a pull-fade flight. Of course, this is n=1 so who knows if this pattern holds over time. My miss was a cut/fade that starts on target, or maybe a bit pushed, and moves moderately to the right, and comes up short of typical distance. This miss is much more playable than the violent hooks, pull hooks, and shanks I was hitting previously. Overall I'm feeling optimistic that I can solidify these changes quickly, and hopefully get some decent rounds in before rainy season. Another thing my teacher asked me to try was not hovering the club at setup. She thinks it can help with my commitment to my target line/setup. I didn't take this advice as something that is right or wrong, but just a new approach to try and see if there is any improvement. I tend get fidgety with my feet when I am hovering the club prior to takeaway and start repositioning my feet and changing my alignment. I tried it in my round yesterday when I remembered it, but reverted back to hovering often.
    • Up to 7.8; while I feel like I’m playing well lately, the numbers don’t lie, heading in the wrong direction.  🙄
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. AggieZac
      AggieZac
      (26 years old)
    2. BAnderson
      BAnderson
      (40 years old)
    3. BillBuckeye
      BillBuckeye
      (57 years old)
    4. bwoody
      bwoody
      (48 years old)
    5. fburns
      fburns
      (59 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...