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onthehunt526

160 yards to break 90?!

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1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

So I'm getting the consensus that this guy is full of it?

My opinion, based on a very small amount of experience, is that his method might work but only for a small percentage of 90's players. I think he is oversimplifying our game.

Personally, I've played several rounds of golf using irons almost exclusively and almost nothing changes with my scores.

My average score is high 90's. I incur lot of penalties with the driver, so it seems like his method would work for someone like me. Irons might even be considered a "strength" in my game (very loose interpretation of that word). Yet, when I use irons only, I score very close to same as when using driver and 5w.

I'm not sure why that is, but I like this explanation...

6 hours ago, Jerry in DC said:

At any given level, you can break your holes into wins, losses, and draws.  For a 90s golfer, a bogey is a draw, better is a win, worse is a loss.  This strategy is likely to reduce losses.  You could argue with that, but I think it would be true - fewer doubles and worse.  Problem is that it kills your opportunities for wins. 

In other words, I can still make mistakes using irons only. But it's without the advantage the driver provides by leaving a shorter club for my next shot.

Driver then wedge vs 5i then 5i. I might be wrong statistically, but there doesn't seem to be an advantage using 5i - 5i.

Another way to look at it, I can shoot 97 a lot of different ways. I can do it with no blowup holes and less pars, or with a couple blowup holes and a lot of pars.

In any case, I like discussions like these. I'm glad you started the topic @onthehunt526

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I haven't really given my full opinion yet. Here it is. 

I think it is a little too oversimplified. Can you shoot your normal scores with shorter clubs? (i.e. safer clubs 5I instead of driver). Sure. But is a 90s shooter going to go out and shoot 87 tomorrow with this method, no.

One thing I did leave out. This is not an instant cure. You do need to practice and be striking consistent. (At least that's what the Golf Sidekick says). If you are a consistent striker as some of us are, could it work? Yeah, sure. But you won't go from 95 to the 80s doing this without practice and probably lessons.

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On 2/25/2018 at 11:33 PM, onthehunt526 said:

What do you usually shoot? If you don't mind me asking?


I think the reason that TheGolfSidekick believes that holder's consistently in the 90s shouldn't hit 30-70 yard shots, is maybe the inconsistency there?

Most 90s golfers aren't hitting very many greens in regulation or having many birdie putts. 

It does go away from LSW in the fact that you're not getting it as close to the hole as you can. 

I'm a 17.4hi if that helps.

I will try a hybrid-or-less round this year.

 

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For what it’s worth I am a 22 cap and have tried this method a few different times. Never broke 90 doing it. I also have never had any 100+ rounds. The few times I did it I always scored in the 93-98 kind of range. Three or four rounds isn’t a great sample size though. 

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I'll keep this brief because it is only tangiently related. He has a breaking 80 video up. I don't think the breaking 80 video is hogwash, the golfer is a regular dude. 

The breaking 80 video is LSW.  You can tell from the first drive. There is a huge difference. If there is enough interest, I will start a discussion on that in a new thread.

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39 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

The breaking 80 video is LSW.  You can tell from the first drive. There is a huge difference. If there is enough interest, I will start a discussion on that in a new thread.

Not that I'll be breaking 80 any time soon, but I always enjoy talking about strategy.

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Good discussion, friends.

It's not a cookie cutter system. Just out there for some food for thought and for anyone to identify what they can improve or remove.

But using a lot of the information there, I have had around 400 emails from guys thanking me that they broke 90 using parts of the system. Of course, some golfers don't have a club they can hit 160 yards but those guys are not shooting in the 90s - those are 100 shooters. I have played golf with mostly mid and high handicappers in my life and most guys off an 18-23 handicap have a club that can go 145 meters/160 yards pretty straight and consistently.

They lose most of their shots off the tee with wayward shots, taking drops at the water or reloads from Oscar Bravos. They lose shots by taking on silly shots they have no business attempting instead of laying up to a decent dsiatcne they are happy with. They lose shots by chipping and putting poorly.

In the video and others on the channel are all the ideas you need to chip better, make better decisions on the course and remove the problem clubs that lose you strokes. While it has been said on here that you should be able to hit a driver to break 90, that's all well and good but most guys in the 90's are either learning to hit it on the course (which results in bad scores and negative associations with the club and frustration) or they're bashing them all day at the range without any idea of what they are trying to achieve there. A guy in the 90s can get GREAT at a 5 iron off the tee quicker than a driver just because of the physics of the length of shaft, loft, angle of attack all of it is easier with a mid/long iron. Even a 21° fairway wood is going to be easier to get good at than a 15° or lower lofted club.

Remove the driver and learn it away from the course and introduce it later. This is the main difference I have seen in the emails I have received. The guys are just giving the driver a breather and getting over this "shame" guys put on others how don't hit their drivers. 

Also a big one people have mailed me about is not getting get cute with chips and just getting it on the greens. As well as breaking shots up into smaller shots. A 3 wood and a half sand wedge is going to be less successful than a lay up to a wedge or SW distance as long as the person practices those 5 favorite clubs of his. There is no way someone who cannot hit a golf ball can break 90 but if they practice hitting the high percentage clubs, they'll break 90 by a massive amount. 

Practice these

a hybrid/5 iron

7 iron

PW

SW

Putter

And you'll break 90. No doubt. It will take you much less time to do than banging your head against a wall from the macho driver driver driver crowd. 

Once you're done with the round, assess where the weakness is and then improve that area. It's a process not a quick fix. But anyone can do it if they can shoot inside 100.

Breaking 80 videos are up too. All sorts of videos. It's all honest golf rounds of regular guys. Any triggering of viewers is unintentional but fun. Good luck players!

 

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Yeah, I’m not buying it. I’ve still not broken 100, but have come close.  I’ve tried this before. I shot 105 on a short course. This strategy kept me from shooting 115 or 120, but I won’t get into the 90’s, let alone break 90 without my driver.

My two best scores, and several others that were close, were all playing with all of my clubs, including driver.

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Your system would work only if someone has a stellar short game, not just a decent short game.

At 66 and with a couple of partially torn rotator cuff tendons I only have the mobility of half a swing.  My drives are around 200 yards +/-, but they are a lot straighter.

My short game was always pretty good, but if I miss a green on my 3rd shot I'm not getting down in par+1.  I have not broken 100 since my injury a few years ago, close, but not there.

In passing, since my injury, I have come to realize that for a lot of people just having a driver in his/her hand throws mechanics out the window.  Ripping that 1-in-10 300+ yard drive right down the middle is worth the other 9 that land in parts unknown.  Anyone who can consistently hit a 160 yard iron shot can can easily hit a 200 yard drive.  Heck, the shaft can even be shortened to achieve it.  But without the length of a decent drive, to set up a short iron into the green, the short game has to be perfect.

John

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6 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

At 66 and with a couple of partially torn rotator cuff tendons I only have the mobility of half a swing.  My drives are around 200 yards +/-, but they are a lot straighter.

This is me at 72 and with RA thrown in. I tried the shorter club off the tee and it didn't help. My drives are pretty good, given physical limitations. Using LSW as an eye-opener, I identified my 2nd shots and my wedge approaches as having highest value for me. That's what I have worked on. My scores have improved slowly. But not able to get out to the range or course lately due to extreme temps even early. Hope everyone will consult LSW. Best, -Marv

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42 minutes ago, MarvChamp said:

This is me at 72 and with RA thrown in. I tried the shorter club off the tee and it didn't help. My drives are pretty good, given physical limitations. Using LSW as an eye-opener, I identified my 2nd shots and my wedge approaches as having highest value for me. That's what I have worked on. My scores have improved slowly. But not able to get out to the range or course lately due to extreme temps even early. Hope everyone will consult LSW. Best, -Marv

I agree completely.  When you can't play driver-short iron into a green it puts so much pressure on making that 3rd shot and putting.  Even moving up on the tees doesn't give me a short enough iron on my second.

I realize this approach is like turning the course into an executive and playing for a bogey, except for the shorter par 3's, vs playing for a par.

John

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On 3/1/2018 at 7:44 PM, onthehunt526 said:

The breaking 80 video is LSW.  You can tell from the first drive. 

If this is Didi’s Drive you’re discussing, then I think he skipped an entire chapter of LSW? The part about swing mechanics 😂

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23 hours ago, golfsidekick said:

Good discussion, friends.

It's not a cookie cutter system. Just out there for some food for thought and for anyone to identify what they can improve or remove.

But using a lot of the information there, I have had around 400 emails from guys thanking me that they broke 90 using parts of the system. Of course, some golfers don't have a club they can hit 160 yards but those guys are not shooting in the 90s - those are 100 shooters. I have played golf with mostly mid and high handicappers in my life and most guys off an 18-23 handicap have a club that can go 145 meters/160 yards pretty straight and consistently.

They lose most of their shots off the tee with wayward shots, taking drops at the water or reloads from Oscar Bravos. They lose shots by taking on silly shots they have no business attempting instead of laying up to a decent dsiatcne they are happy with. They lose shots by chipping and putting poorly.

In the video and others on the channel are all the ideas you need to chip better, make better decisions on the course and remove the problem clubs that lose you strokes. While it has been said on here that you should be able to hit a driver to break 90, that's all well and good but most guys in the 90's are either learning to hit it on the course (which results in bad scores and negative associations with the club and frustration) or they're bashing them all day at the range without any idea of what they are trying to achieve there. A guy in the 90s can get GREAT at a 5 iron off the tee quicker than a driver just because of the physics of the length of shaft, loft, angle of attack all of it is easier with a mid/long iron. Even a 21° fairway wood is going to be easier to get good at than a 15° or lower lofted club.

Remove the driver and learn it away from the course and introduce it later. This is the main difference I have seen in the emails I have received. The guys are just giving the driver a breather and getting over this "shame" guys put on others how don't hit their drivers. 

Also a big one people have mailed me about is not getting get cute with chips and just getting it on the greens. As well as breaking shots up into smaller shots. A 3 wood and a half sand wedge is going to be less successful than a lay up to a wedge or SW distance as long as the person practices those 5 favorite clubs of his. There is no way someone who cannot hit a golf ball can break 90 but if they practice hitting the high percentage clubs, they'll break 90 by a massive amount. 

Practice these

a hybrid/5 iron

7 iron

PW

SW

Putter

And you'll break 90. No doubt. It will take you much less time to do than banging your head against a wall from the macho driver driver driver crowd. 

Once you're done with the round, assess where the weakness is and then improve that area. It's a process not a quick fix. But anyone can do it if they can shoot inside 100.

Breaking 80 videos are up too. All sorts of videos. It's all honest golf rounds of regular guys. Any triggering of viewers is unintentional but fun. Good luck players!

 

I agree.From all the tournaments I've played its the driver that kills most golfers scores,even the better golfers.Learn to keep your driver in play and chip and putt decently then you'll break 90 consistently.The iron play and second shots are what gets you breaking 80.

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It may work for some. Problem is where do you go once you’ve broken 90? Pretty much back to the drawing board working on driver fwy wood. So, unless one is very skilled it’s pretty much a dead end on the quest to break 80, if that’s even going to be the next goal

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4 hours ago, chilepepper said:

It may work for some. Problem is where do you go once you’ve broken 90? Pretty much back to the drawing board working on driver fwy wood. So, unless one is very skilled it’s pretty much a dead end on the quest to break 80, if that’s even going to be the next goal

Right.  It's up there with "how to break 100" type thoughts... sure, if the goal is to post a double-digit score at some point, those work just fine.  But they aren't great for getting much past about 97, while a better swing usually will.

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On 2/24/2018 at 7:54 AM, billchao said:

Sure, if by anyone, he means anyone who's already a 10 handicap or better.

A golfer who struggles to break 90 isn't going to have a club they can consistently hit 160 and keep out of trouble. They likely struggle with solid contact and at times are prone to thin, fat, or topped shots. Laying up off the tee will increase the chance of one of these big misses occurring because they have to make more full swing motions to get the ball to the green.

This is why higher handicaps tend to score better relative to par on par 3s and worse on par 5s, whereas better players score better on par 5s than they do on par 3s.

Kind of the same as the first one: these clubs probably don't exist. This golfer probably struggles to get all of their pitch shots on the green. It's likely their shot zones from 150 are still going to put them into trouble, and they're still going to fat, thin, or top the occasional approach.

This also implies they should lay up to a specific approach distance, which I don't agree with.

According to @David in FL, it better be a chipper ;-)

That increases the difficulty of these shots, though. Instead of properly mapping partial wedges, they want a high handicap player to learn how to vary the feel and length of their swing to hit the same club over a wide variety of distances? That's got disaster written all over it.

And I don't agree with the second part, either. We all know golfers of all levels tend to hit the ball closer to their target on shorter shots. They will do better on average from 40 yards than they will from 120.

I agree with this. The primary goal of a pitch or chip should be to not have a followup one.

But again, skill is important. People don't skull pitches because they're trying to get the ball too close to the hole; they do it because they have poor mechanics.

Uh right. Everyone can avoid three-putting if they would just consistently two-putt...

See #1. Breaking down a long approach (which BTW you'll have a lot more of if you follow tip #1) into two shorter shots increases the likelihood of misses. It's not like high handicap golfers struggle only with longer clubs and they hit their short clubs with great contact.

This really makes no sense if you combine it with tip #1. Most of the par 4s would be three shot holes, the par 5s can be more depending on length. So a high handicap player makes three shots and say they hit they green on their third and follow tip #6 and two-putt for bogey. Or maybe they miss the green and have to one chip, then two-putt for double. Oh, don't forget tip #4, so their 200 yard approach is now two 100 yard shots. Did I mention fats/thins/tops?

Not really, at least not to me. Distance has shades of grey. It's not like everything within the fairway is white. Advance the ball as far as you can without bringing trouble into play, not arbitrarily assign a yardage to hit your tee shots and approach shots to.

I can avoid trouble if I pitch the ball 40 yards everywhere, doesn't mean I'll score better.

Learning to break 90 requires improving one's skillset. There's no gimmick that will magically make a person pass that benchmark.

These tips seem more like a demonstration of how a good golfer can still break 90 using only four short clubs rather than advice for a poorer golfer struggling to break 90.

Dood, how did I miss this post?.. Awesome. 

"Everybody can avoid three putting only if they would consistently two-putt". lol!

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31 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

"Everybody can avoid three putting only if they would consistently two-putt". lol!

We'll revisit these words of wisdom in ten months when we debate if John Madden would be a better voice in the booth for the U.S. Open than Joe Buck.

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53 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Dood, how did I miss this post?.. Awesome. 

Thanks, I forgot about that post. Guess I have a lot of time on my hands in February 😅

54 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

"Everybody can avoid three putting only if they would consistently two-putt". lol!

#truth #facts #thisisgoingtobemyepitaph 😜

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