USGA/R&A release new distance report

[shanksalot]

The USGA claims to be for the good of the game. It however sounds like it is the good of the USGA. They are concerned about their USGA tournaments being made a mockery of by these pros. They forget that the masses, IE the 99.97% of the playing populace is amateurs. The forget the average golfer hits the ball a little over 200 yards, the average women under 150 yards from the tee. Yet the want to curtail the ball not just for the pros but for everyone. They seem to intimate they are only looking at the elite golfers, but they won't bifurcate the rules so the masses can still be able to hit it a majestic 150 and 200 yards off the tee. They have dug in time and time again about bifurcation and I really doubt the would agree to it now. Plus the push back from the OEM's would be significant. It would or could really put a dent in their sales. They want to grow the game and yet here they are basically screwing the average golfer once again. 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, shanksalot said:

The USGA claims to be for the good of the game. It however sounds like it is the good of the USGA. They are concerned about their USGA tournaments being made a mockery of by these pros. They forget that the masses, IE the 99.97% of the playing populace is amateurs.

How do you figure?

They haven’t done anything yet. Thus far they’ve held the line if anything.

And the R&A matter too. The USGA doesn’t act alone here.

[klineka]

7 hours ago, shanksalot said:

Plus the push back from the OEM's would be significant. It would or could really put a dent in their sales. 

Wouldn't it in theory increase sales since the manufacturers would have to release all new equipment and everyone that would want to be in compliance with the rules would need new clubs, or at least new golf balls.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, klineka said:

Wouldn't it in theory increase sales since the manufacturers would have to release all new equipment and everyone that would want to be in compliance with the rules would need new clubs, or at least new golf balls.

Neither players nor manufacturers want to have bifurcation. No money for either side in that, really.

[nevets88]

I would guess most people aren't sure which tennis balls to buy if they want the exact same ones as those used in whichever major, let alone which ones to buy for just a casual game they'll probably pick the one with the most appealing packaging or price. There are so many different types of golf balls out now, bifurcation will make it even more confusing and for golf ball companies, guessing the logistical sales/manufacturing nightmare would cost more than increased sales volume.

[GrandStranded]

Why? The tour would be using a ball amateurs would never have available to them. I favor Bifurcation over a reduction in the balls distance for amateurs, but the big problem I see isn't the one you mentioned, but it is, at what level of competition do you stop using the Tour ball? Do you use it on mini tours? What about USGA sponsored Amateur events? Where you draw the line on which ball is put in play seems like the biggest hurdle to clear.

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

Why?

1. PGA Tour players don't want to lose out on endorsement money. They can't endorse a ball that the public can't buy.
2. Manufacturers will lose money by having to produce a ball they can't sell because it's a "shorter" ball.
3. Golfers have, by and large, rejected the idea of bifurcation. There are illegal balls out there now that exceed the ODS. You can barely find them and they're not selling in huge quantities. The Callaway ERC II was an illegal driver, and pushing that tarnished Arnie's reputation and was rejected by golfers.

Golfers like to play what the pros play, and pros like getting paid to play the ball, and companies like to produce the ball that the pros play for all.

The PGA Tour itself - and the PGA of America - are against a ball roll-back or bifurcation.

13 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

I favor Bifurcation over a reduction in the balls distance for amateurs, but the big problem I see isn't the one you mentioned, but it is, at what level of competition do you stop using the Tour ball? Do you use it on mini tours? What about USGA sponsored Amateur events? Where you draw the line on which ball is put in play seems like the biggest hurdle to clear.

Another issue. Bifurcation is not as simple as saying "you can use metal bats in college and wood in the pros" because unlike almost every other sport, the lines are not anywhere near as clear, and there's a very distinct advantage to playing a ball that goes, say, 15% farther.

[GrandStranded]

All true, and if as you say, the PGA tour and the PGA of America are against it, great. If you think the USGA feels the same way, all is good in my golf world!

[woodzie264]

2 hours ago, klineka said:

Wouldn't it in theory increase sales since the manufacturers would have to release all new equipment and everyone that would want to be in compliance with the rules would need new clubs, or at least new golf balls.

I would agree

[Lihu]

Taylormade finally made good on the promise of longer drives!

 

 

[NCGolfer]

1 hour ago, woodzie264 said:

I would agree

I think @iacas has given reasons against that.  I was listening to Hank Haney today at lunch and he basically echoed the same thing.  The players don't want this because they can't endorse a product the public can't buy.

Also, the kind of golfers that might have to buy extra equipment would be myself (lower handicappers that might play in both worlds)...and I'd be pissed about it.  I'd have to have equipment to play in USGA events/qualifiers (if they enforce them there) and also equipment to play at my club in regular tournaments.  I'd have to practice also with both equipment, spending more money on two different sets of the same damn thing.  What about range balls?  Are they going to provide two different types of balls for players that need to practice both?  Do you think clubs are going to do that or be happy about that?  Buying extra balls and having to sort them every day?

It's just stupid.  I don't see a product that is broken yet people are trying to find a fix.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, woodzie264 said:

I would agree

If only the ball changed, and it changed for everyone, I suspect you'd actually see a spike in PRE-reduced-flight ball sales, followed by a lull. There would be no real overall surge, because golf balls are consumables anyway. People are always buying them.

20 minutes ago, NCGolfer said:

I don't see a product that is broken yet people are trying to find a fix.

Nor do most golfers.

The "problem" exists in the minds of a small minority, I think. Mostly people who have two points:

• Driver/9I is not "entertaining" or "fun to watch".
• Good old golf courses are being wrecked or made unusable for the 0.001% of the game's best players.

To the former, I say prove it.

To the latter, I say… I don't care. Disrupting all of golf so that we can go back to having a U.S. Open at Newport Country Club is not something I care about.

[woodzie264]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

If only the ball changed, and it changed for everyone, I suspect you'd actually see a spike in PRE-reduced-flight ball sales, followed by a lull. There would be no real overall surge...

Good point. My thought was that the non-conforming golf ball market is relatively small compared to the conforming one because people want to play by the rules....not because of who endorses them. So, I would expect if the rules changed, the sales would increase. But your point about it being temporary then level out is well taken.

[onthehunt526]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

How do you figure?

They haven’t done anything yet. Thus far they’ve held the line if anything.

And the R&A matter too. The USGA doesn’t act alone here.

The USGA/R&A probably won't either. 

With the average amateur drive only going up 4% in 20 years, and the average probably not moving much since 2006. I don't know that we need to roll the ball back.

Guys are stronger, clubs are easier than ever to hit... I'd say make sure we weren't going any further... Wait they already did that.

[jsgolfer]

This whole things sounds like a 25% solution to a non-problem.  it's a waste of time, energy and effort.  

[sjduffers]

Even if there was a rollback (and I hope there isn't one), it shouldn't be near 20%. Imagine 300 yards drive now going 240? Great, now all these pros can successfully play at the munis, like the rest of us, as 6500 yards would be about right, from the back tees.  Just f**ing ridiculous.  Jack, move over: you are dead wrong on this one.

[shanksalot]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 4:09 AM, iacas said:

How do you figure?

They haven’t done anything yet. Thus far they’ve held the line if anything.

And the R&A matter too. The USGA doesn’t act alone here.

 

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 4:09 AM, iacas said:

How do you figure?

They haven’t done anything yet. Thus far they’ve held the line if anything.

And the R&A matter too. The USGA doesn’t act alone here.

No they are talking about making a change. I hope they don't, but it they do they had better just make it by bifurcation and enforce it against the less than 1% of the players not the 99+%. The problem they feel that they are facing is just a very small percentage of the golfing populace. It seems like they are concerned more about losing sites for their USGA tournaments than about affecting millions of golfers who already have distance problems. How much sense does it make to take 30-40 yards from many players who already have moved up a tee because of distance lost due to age. If they are trying to grow the game I think this is a step backwards. They may have good intentions, but I think what they are looking at is not in the best interests of golf. If they cut the ball back 20% I would be hitting driver into a 170 yard par three at my course. That certainly would not speed up the game of golf. 

[phillyk]

The PGA of America already sent out their survey and I'll assume the PGA Tour and other tours sent surveys of their own to their players for feedback.  If the majority of the 29,000+ leaders of the game come out saying the ball should not be rolled back, the USGA wouldn't dare go against them.  And it sounds like all the above have a majority against the roll-back, but we'll find out a couple weeks I think.