Caring About Your Shots (and Playing as Slowly) as Tour Players

[Zeph]

Here's a few articles that discuss not keeping a score to make golf more fun:

 

https://womensgolfjournal.com/golf/argument-not-keeping-score/ (this one actually cite TST)

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/fun-issue-18-ways

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/playing-without-keeping-score

[mcanadiens]

Aside from 10-practice swing guy, slow play usually happens for us rec-players before you get to the ball and not after it. 

Taking a few extra seconds to hit a shot is probably the better way to go. You give yourself a chance to see the shot in your mind's eye, before you get into your routine. Just don't waste time getting to the ball in the first place.

[davidg]

11 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Aside from 10-practice swing guy, slow play usually happens for us rec-players before you get to the ball and not after it. 

Taking a few extra seconds to hit a shot is probably the better way to go. You give yourself a chance to see the shot in your mind's eye, before you get into your routine. Just don't waste time getting to the ball in the first place.

agree 100% ..i see groups all the time spend 10 minutes on the tee box , then we drive up and it reminds them - oh , we gotta hit!!.. and i understand , they've been scattered out for the last 15 min. now they gotta catch up..this is just idle chit chat that should and could be done anywhere else at deliberate times , maybe in the clubhouse.. maybe while riding .. not trying to say i'm perfect , but just be conscious about dead time and be considerate .. i admit i am considerate to a fault and am strong believer in etiquette

[BaconNEggs]

9 hours ago, NEhomer said:

20 hours ago, BaconNEggs said:

You're being deliberately dishonest or not paying attention. He specifically listed "place in history" -- which playing for the national championship on TV in front of millions of people certainly qualifies. In addition, the "etc." would cover other situations that may make a situation more important to you that would potentially make you consider taking more time over a shot. Playing against your brother who you've never beat and have a slim lead going into the final few holes? Maybe that makes it more important to you, and you'll take more time. Playing in your club championship? Ditto. Of course, it works the other way too. Just trying to get 9 holes in after work before dark? Then you will probably play quicker than usual, and probably care less about your score.

The thing that is most frustrating about this discussion is that it's basically you plugging your ears as to other people's reasoning why they don't take as much time as possible to maximize every single shot, and then calling them liars when they say that scoring as absolutely low as possible every single round is not of the utmost importance. In case you haven't noticed, not a single person has sided with your position. 

It's because this is basic common sense, and it's bizarre to see you continue to deny it. People scale how much time they put into things depending on how important it is to them. And for the vast, vast majority of people, golf is a purely recreational activity that is not that important relative to other things in their life. 

If your recreational rounds are so important to you that you play them as if your livelihood depended on it, or as if your place in history in front of millions of people depended on it (the NCAA example), that's fine, but understand you are in a very small minority. 

 

Read more  

If your recreational rounds are so important to you that you play them as if your livelihood depended on it,

Did you just accuse me of putting words in someone's mouth because I only want to hear what I want to hear? Pot, kettle. Cripes.

I have a question for all of you for whom I've somehow touched a nerve. When you play golf, do you aim toward the hole? I mean, if the score doesn't matter, why not just swipe it along the ground? Hell, you don't even need to pay green fees...you could just go to a municipal park and hit shots for free while enjoying the outdoors with friends.

Also, for you guys who claim to not care about the very object of the game, I have an apparel suggestion for you:

"The second assumption is that amateurs shouldn't care as much about their shots. I don't feed my family with mine but for all the effort and expense golf requires, my shots are kind of important too." - You

That's from the first page. Those are your words, dude. You directly compared the importance of your shots to those who play for a living. This whole thread is people telling you you shouldn't care as much as a professional, and you disputing it. 

As for your second paragraph, I just have to laugh. The score matters to most people to some degree. The more the score matters, the more time someone will spend on a shot. The more time they'll spend preparing for their round. The less likely they are to do things that might affect their performance, like drink beers, or eat hot dogs. How can you not grasp that? I don't know how it could be made any more simple for you. I feel like I'm explaining calculus to a third grader, and it's just not that f***ing complicated. 

Why do people drink beers when they play billiards, or darts, or golf, or men's league softball? I mean, surely those beers are going to affect their coordination and cause them to not score to their maximum ability.   

We're all pussies because you can't understand an unbelievably simple and intuitive concept? That's wonderful. I bet you felt very proud and clever after that one. 

 

[JonMA1]

11 hours ago, NEhomer said:

Also, for you guys who claim to not care about the very object of the game, I have an apparel suggestion for you:

I love it! I'd wear it on days when I'm especially sensitive... you know... feeling a little vulnerable. 

 

I think this is a good topic @NEhomer. There are a couple of points that come to mind...

How seriously do we take the game?

I think most of us here are pretty serious golfers in that we all belong to a golf forum. I mean, I have other hobbies but I'm not joining forums for any of those. Then again, I'm anti-social.

Some of us stress about getting better. Others talk to the ball while it's in flight and throw hissy fits when it doesn't listen. There are entire sets of clubs at the bottom of ponds preceded by a bunch of golf balls.

Some finagle or hide money from their spouses so that the addiction can be fed. I'll put off chores or even leave work early to get in a quick fix of 9 or an extra 30 minutes of practice. I've had funerals get in the way of my golf and felt a little cheated by it. (I'm not proud of that one).

So yeah, for the most part, we're pretty serious about the game. 

Does taking extra time help my scores?

As far as investing a bunch of time and thought into a shot, I could probably save a stroke or two per round if I slowed down... maybe. Something I started doing in the last 2 years was to pick a spot of grass or a leaf or anything around my ball to help with alignment to a small target. That extra bit of time  - like 10 or 20 seconds per shot - has helped my game.

For the majority of shots... as far a club selection, that seems quick and easy. But honestly, I'm so bad at this game that I could choose the next club up or down on every shot and it might not make that much of a difference in the final score. While I'm pushing my cart towards the ball, the phone (gps) is already out and I'm getting a good idea of the distance. For the majority of circumstances I think most of us can assess the danger and determine our target quickly... a few seconds maybe. Factor in a strong wind and/or elevation, adjust, and pick a club. When it's between clubs I may hem and haw a bit, but not usually very long.

For the rest... There are just some shots that require some thought. The toughest for me are really bad lies while in trouble - the kind where taking an unplayable is an option. I don't do well with them and screwing those up perpetuates over-thinking the next time.

But for me, here's the biggest thing about all of this... the outcome shouldn't be a big deal during a casual round of golf. If I get super giddy about a good shot or crawl into a fetal position when I hit a bad one, something's wrong and I need to find stronger meds. The good shots/scores are cool, and the bad ones - even though they piss me off more than they should - are just golf.

If low scores and happiness were synonymous with taking more time, that would make every slow group I've ever been stuck behind the happiest scratch players in the world.

[iacas]

13 hours ago, NEhomer said:

I have a question for all of you for whom I've somehow touched a nerve. When you play golf, do you aim toward the hole?

It's completely off topic for this one here… but aiming at the hole is not the way to shoot the lowest score. Check out LSW.

13 hours ago, NEhomer said:

I have a question for all of you for whom I've somehow touched a nerve. When you play golf, do you aim toward the hole? I mean, if the score doesn't matter, why not just swipe it along the ground?

You continue to completely miss the point.

Let's say PGA Tour pros care at an 8.5 level. They may ratchet that up to a 9.5 or 10 in the final round if they're in contention, they face an important shot or series of holes to make the cut, etc. They may also be a 7 in some rounds where they're out of it in the second round and going to MC by four.

An average player cares anywhere from a 0 to 10, but the 7-10 range is rare: club championships maybe, the finals of the U.S. Amateur, sure. There are a lot of guys who simply don't care about their scores much at all.

And even people like me… there are rounds where I care a good bit - a 7 or an 8, even - and rounds where I don't really care at all - a 2 or a 3. Whether they're practice rounds or rounds where I'm more interested in what my college kids or daughter are doing… etc.

The only point I've made which everyone's basically agreed with and which you are the only person who does not, it seems, is that the average PGA Tour player cares a bit more about their shots than the average amateur. That's as it should be.

If you care more, you'll often take a little more time. To an average amateur, he won't wait for a 10 MPH wind to become a 5 MPH wind. They won't worry about whether the slope is going to take off three yards or four. They won't worry as much about the drop in temperature from the start of the round at 2pm to the final round holes at 6pm or 7pm.

Nor should they.

Nobody has said that amateurs "don't care at all" about their shots. They've all agreed, IIRC, with me that the average amateur doesn't care as much as a PGA Tour player does.

Thus, a PGA Tour player might take a little bit longer. Those 1 or 2 yard differences matter to them. They really don't to an 8 handicapper.

P.S. Nobody, to add to the list of things you've said wrong, listed any "excuses." You confused excuses with "reasons."

3 hours ago, BaconNEggs said:

We're all pussies…

Oh, that explains that stupid hat.

@NEhomer, buddy, chill.

[billchao]

16 hours ago, NEhomer said:

I have a question for all of you for whom I've somehow touched a nerve. When you play golf, do you aim toward the hole? I mean, if the score doesn't matter, why not just swipe it along the ground? Hell, you don't even need to pay green fees...you could just go to a municipal park and hit shots for free while enjoying the outdoors with friends.

Obviously there's a difference between not caring that much and not caring at all.

16 hours ago, NEhomer said:

Also, for you guys who claim to not care about the very object of the game, I have an apparel suggestion for you:

I'd rock that hat.

[The Hook Meister]

The pros are playing for a lot of money. The rest of us are not. I can see studying on a putt for a couple of minutes or so, but you don't need top take a ridiculous  amount of time to putt.  All you can do is just be a little patient.

[iacas]

I shot 71 yesterday that could have been lower:

• I missed a couple of sub-10 footers that I didn't really read.
• I didn't warm up, and consequently, heeled the hell out of my first tee shot.
• I didn't read most of my putts on the back nine or even take many practice strokes. I mostly stepped up and hit them.
• I didn't get yardages on a few shots.

Why didn't I care very much?

• Because my score didn't count for anything.
• Because I was working on some parts of my swing and didn't really care about putting (I putt really well when I try).
• Because I was more interested in watching what my college players were doing (I played with three of them).
• Because I was just happy to be outside in a short sleeved shirt.
• Because it's more enjoyable to do the three things above than to grind over a meaningless score.

Yep. I could have pretty easily shaved a stroke or two and shot 70 or 69. The putt on #5, the pitch on #11… a few other putts may have gone in with a better read or some practice strokes.

[sofingaw]

Without piling on the OP, I’ll share my viewpoint. 

I’m not an accomplished golfer. Never broke 100. I’m also not a slow player. My pre-shot routine is: look down the line for about 10 secs visualizing the shot, take a practice swing (60% of the time), line up, hit. I play ready golf, and I have a quick, long, natural stride. I am not above a light jog to my ball if I’m not playing ‘cart golf’ and need to traverse a good bit of the hole to get to my ball, away from any playing partners. I hate to feel rushed from behind, and I do my best to avoid having anyone wait on me.

All that said, I care quite a bit about my score, and about improvement. While I love many things about golf, getting better is the most important reason I am playing now, and scores are the easiest way to track improvement. I want to get as good as I can, very much. 

I would indeed take several minutes to hit each shot like a tour pro, if:

1) I wanted to spend an extra couple of hours away from my family on a weekend.

2) I did not care about making strangers and friends wait for me for those two hours per day;

OR

2a) It was an acceptable norm for me, and everyone else, to take as long as we wanted on each shot.

3) I had the skill for the extra time to make an appreciable, positive difference to my outcomes. 

Well, I’m here to say: 

1) I don’t want to be gone longer. While I could hit balls and play all day, every day with great joy, my family comes first. I truly feel a twinge of guilt taking the 4-7 hours I do take for myself per month while my wife is stuck home watching our 3 and 1 year old, even though I love golf desperately enough to do it anyway.

2) I do care. It’s clearly inconsiderate.  Plus, I feel rushed from behind when it’s tight/busy out there. Taking extra time would exasperate this, and make me play worse. 

2a) It’s not the norm anywhere I play or during casual rounds in general, as evidenced not least by the replies here. 

3) My shots are simply not consistent enough for extra time and considerations to make a positive difference. In fact, I often play my best when I’m a bit less deliberate, and in rhythm, or ‘the zone’. Pretty common for most sports skills, it seems. It seems like more time over the ball and thinking allows for more thoughts to creep in and mess up the flow. My most deliberate shots are at best 50/50 between good/bad results versus ‘my walk up, line up, look, and hit’ shots.

In summary,

It’s not nice, or right to do, it isn’t important at my level and place in life, and it doesn’t even work. Maybe in an alternate universe....

 

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by sofingaw
Spelling, typos.

[Shorty]

1 hour ago, sofingaw said:

Without piling on the OP, I’ll share my viewpoint. 

I’m not an accomplished golfer. Never broke 100. I’m also not a slow player. My pre-shot routine is: look down the line for about 10 secs visualizing the shot, take a practice swing (60% of the time), line up, hit. I play ready golf, and I have a quick, long, natural stride. I am not above a light jog to my ball if I’m not playing ‘cart golf’ and need to traverse a good bit of the hole to get to my ball, away from any pla

 

 

This = slow play. 10 seconds to "visualise" the shot is a long time. And you haven't had a practice swing or lined up yet? Sheesh...

[sofingaw]

2 minutes ago, Shorty said:

This = slow play. 10 seconds to "visualise" the shot is a long time. And you haven't had a practice swing or lined up yet? Sheesh...

Yeah, I would say 10 seconds is a maximum for me, actually.

But I would argue still that 10 seconds x 105 shots (I’m being conservative and counting ALL shots I normally shoot, including tap-in putts) = 1060 seconds/60 seconds = 

17.6 minutes per round as my maximum amount of ‘visualization’ time.

A total of less than a minute per hole. 

Perhaps not a word record, but hardly slow. 

[Shorty]

2 minutes ago, sofingaw said:

Yeah, I would say 10 seconds is a maximum for me, actually.

But I would argue still that 10 seconds x 105 shots (I’m being conservative and counting ALL shots I normally shoot, including tap-in putts) = 1060 seconds/60 seconds = 

17.6 minutes per round as my maximum amount of ‘visualization’ time.

A total of less than a minute per hole. 

Perhaps not a word record, but hardly slow. 

Do your visualising as you approach your ball. I'm not talking about Jason Day type visualising. You don't need to stand behind your ball for 10 seconds to work out what you're about to attempt.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Shorty

[sofingaw]

Just now, Shorty said:

Do your visualising as you approach your ball. I'm not talking about Jason Day type visualising. You don't need to stand behind your ball for 10 seconds to work out what you're about to attempt.

Yeah, I didn’t specify. Most of my visualization is done as I walk. Though I will sometimes stand near the ball and look for a few seconds from or near the point of view of my stance. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m not a slow player.

[Shorty]

Just now, sofingaw said:

 I’m not a slow player.

Glad to know it.

 

[sofingaw]

21 minutes ago, Shorty said:

Glad to know it.

 

Cheers!  We almost got slightly  anyway, since this thread isn’t about me and my pace of play specifically, but about pace of play more generally.  But I have to defend myself! Lol

[tweakers]

I know how far a good strike with my clubs will go, I have Golf Shot app which gives me distances, as I pull upto my ball, the app is on and I am quick to now what club I want. I should have an idea before I get to the ball what I need to do for the shot, I might take a few moments extra if playing a unfamiliar course. I am not at a place where I can confidently shape my shots, so unless I am stuck behind trouble, I will be aiming for a spot to land. Once club is in hand, I walk behind the ball, eye up my direction, set my grip. If I am working on something specifically I may have one practice with that thought. Then I step up and hit the thing.

If I am on a fairway, its pretty simple, where is bad to go, where is safe, can I attack the pin without much danger, or do I need to be wary of danger if I do that.  I may take 10-20 seconds longer if I am in trouble, but Im fairly quick to decide. Then its just step up and get good contact.

For a putt, I try to judge it as much as I can whilst others are playing, if I can stand near my ball without distracting the shot maker too much, I will be having some practice strokes, or even sizing up the break with my feet.

I play a lot on my own(weekdays off for work), and can get round in 2-2.5 hours if not much traffic out on the course. With traffic I just have to chill, can get up to 5.5 hours sometimes as a one ball behind the tourists that play my local course. I dont like those days, but only once have I got a bit lairy with other golfers about their play(an interclub match that defo took over 6 hours for them to get round).

To agree with the sentiment of most here, we have a little saying out on course to bring us back to earth if we get too fussy, it aint The Masters, get on with it.

My best rounds are usually my quickest rounds, when its on its on, and I just step right up and swing it.

For a fourball, anything over 4.5 hours you need to have a hard look at yourself and your group and see where you can improve. 

I also care about every shot I hit, and want the best results, but more time for me just brings more indecision, the death of any golf shot! Distance, landing point, ball flight then hit the damn thing.

Im guessing at our track OP would be nicknamed Sergio!!

[Vinsk]

If I were to ‘slow down’ and put more thought into my shots, it would inevitably just lead to more time between my shanks.