Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
iacas

Did Jordan Spieth Improve his Lie on 18 in Round 1?

Jordan's Improved Lie  

58 members have voted

  1. 1. Did Jordan Spieth "improve his lie" (Rule 13-2) in the video?

    • Yes
      4
    • No
      29
    • It's Inconclusive
      25


51 posts / 7468 viewsLast Reply

Recommended Posts

I voted "no", and here is why. Several years ago, a player was grounding his club behind the ball. As he would ground his club, the ball would move up an down. The ball did not turn even s little bit. It just road the grass up and down. It was filmed by the TV cameras in a very clear, up close way. 1000s of arm chair officials called it in as a violation.

The talking heads brought in a rules official who explained it was not a rules violation because the ball never changed position. It simply road up, and down on the grass. In other words the grass underneath moved, but the ball never moved from it's position on the grass. The ball would have to rotate from it's resting position on the grass to be a violation. 

The shot was also brought up at the post round meet with media. When asked, the player said the same thing as the rules official. He also added that it was no big deal, as all the players do it from time to time. I believe his exact words were "we all do it". 

I believe the player was Sergio Garcia, but I might be wrong. It was some years ago.

In the video above, I can't see the ball being moved, or changing position. Hence my vote of "no". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Register for free today and you won't see this ad spot again!

8 minutes ago, Patch said:

I voted "no", and here is why. Several years ago, a player was grounding his club behind the ball. As he would ground his club, the ball would move up an down. The ball did not turn even s little bit. It just road the grass up and down. It was filmed by the TV cameras in a very clear, up close way. 1000s of arm chair officials called it in as a violation.

The talking heads brought in a rules official who explained it was not a rules violation because the ball never changed position. It simply road up, and down on the grass. In other words the grass underneath moved, but the ball never moved from it's position on the grass. The ball would have to rotate from it's resting position on the grass to be a violation. 

The shot was also brought up at the post round meet with media. When asked, the player said the same thing as the rules official. He also added that it was no big deal, as all the players do it from time to time. I believe his exact words were "we all do it". 

I believe the player was Sergio Garcia, but I might be wrong. It was some years ago.

In the video above, I can't see the ball being moved, or changing position. Hence my vote of "no". 

You seem to be talking about a different rule. 18-2 is about moving a ball.

The thread is about 13-2,  improving the lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Patch said:

I voted "no", and here is why. Several years ago, a player was grounding his club behind the ball. As he would ground his club, the ball would move up an down. The ball did not turn even s little bit. It just road the grass up and down. It was filmed by the TV cameras in a very clear, up close way. 1000s of arm chair officials called it in as a violation.

The talking heads brought in a rules official who explained it was not a rules violation because the ball never changed position. It simply road up, and down on the grass. In other words the grass underneath moved, but the ball never moved from it's position on the grass. The ball would have to rotate from it's resting position on the grass to be a violation. 

The shot was also brought up at the post round meet with media. When asked, the player said the same thing as the rules official. He also added that it was no big deal, as all the players do it from time to time. I believe his exact words were "we all do it". 

I believe the player was Sergio Garcia, but I might be wrong. It was some years ago.

In the video above, I can't see the ball being moved, or changing position. Hence my vote of "no". 

Just for your information, if the ball moves up or down, it has changed position and is a breach of 18-2, even if it still lies in the same nest of grass.  Vertical movement is still moving under the rules. Only if after moving down, the ball then returns to the same place where it was before the movement, can the player escape the penalty.

Edited by Fourputt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 4/9/2018 at 5:03 PM, Patch said:

I voted "no", and here is why. Several years ago, a player was grounding his club behind the ball. As he would ground his club, the ball would move up an down. The ball did not turn even s little bit. It just road the grass up and down. It was filmed by the TV cameras in a very clear, up close way. 1000s of arm chair officials called it in as a violation.

The talking heads brought in a rules official who explained it was not a rules violation because the ball never changed position. It simply road up, and down on the grass. In other words the grass underneath moved, but the ball never moved from it's position on the grass. The ball would have to rotate from it's resting position on the grass to be a violation. 

The shot was also brought up at the post round meet with media. When asked, the player said the same thing as the rules official. He also added that it was no big deal, as all the players do it from time to time. I believe his exact words were "we all do it". 

I believe the player was Sergio Garcia, but I might be wrong. It was some years ago.

In the video above, I can't see the ball being moved, or changing position. Hence my vote of "no". 

I can't remember who said this either, but I distinctly remember a pro admitting the ball does "move" in the rough when they address it. I know mine often does, in thick rough you really have to address the ball at least 3-4 inches behind it, or hover the club, to NOT move the ball. I rarely see pros hovering or addressing far behind so I assume there is some movement taking place in the rough, though I doubt it is helping them in most cases. 

Edited by Braivo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:03 PM, Patch said:

I voted "no", and here is why. Several years ago, a player was grounding his club behind the ball. As he would ground his club, the ball would move up an down. The ball did not turn even s little bit. It just road the grass up and down. It was filmed by the TV cameras in a very clear, up close way. 1000s of arm chair officials called it in as a violation.

It isn't about the ball moving. It's about less grass being behind the ball now because the golfers has flattened it down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

For what its worth I also think Mr Spieth played the rules very well at The Open last year when he took that drop behind the bus on the practice fairway. He kind of said to all the officials "this is the line" from on top of the sand dune and none of them checked. I reckon he got a good deal from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I guess his name would have to be Patrick Reed to get called on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 4/6/2018 at 8:58 AM, iacas said:

Seriously asking: how is that relevant? If Lexi "typically" marks the ball to the side and puts it nearly an inch away… that's okay too? Of course not. Habit isn't relevant if it's breaching the rules.

Habit is relevant in this scenario. Imagine you're on the teeing ground and you do precisely what he did in the video. Did you improve your lie? Did you alter the conditions of the area in any way to give yourself an advantage? No way no how. So you can't reasonably assume that if Spieth does this sort of motion before every shot that he's breaking the rules on every shot.So you can't reasonably assume that if Spieth does this motion before this shot that he's breaking the rules on this shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, ejm1994 said:

Habit is relevant in this scenario. Imagine you're on the teeing ground and you do precisely what he did in the video. Did you improve your lie? Did you alter the conditions of the area in any way to give yourself an advantage? No way no how. So you can't reasonably assume that if Spieth does this sort of motion before every shot that he's breaking the rules on every shot.So you can't reasonably assume that if Spieth does this motion before this shot that he's breaking the rules on this shot.

Yes you can. A breach is a breach, habitual or not.

And in the teeing area you can improve your lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

59 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yes you can. A breach is a breach, habitual or not.

And in the teeing area you can improve your lie.

I do apologize. You must have missed the part where I mentioned that you cannot reasonably assume that Spieth's motion is a breach of any rule.

Even if it technically breached a rule (it did not), his motion gave him what advantage?

The entire point of rules in sports is to keep a player from gaining an advantage in an unfair way. Spieth did not gain any advantage by doing the motion he did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, ejm1994 said:

The entire point of rules in sports is to keep a player from gaining an advantage in an unfair way. Spieth did not gain any advantage by doing the motion he did.

No. That is not how it works.

30 minutes ago, ejm1994 said:

I do apologize. You must have missed the part where I mentioned that you cannot reasonably assume that Spieth's motion is a breach of any rule.

Even if it technically breached a rule (it did not), his motion gave him what advantage.

As @iacas stated: A breach is a breach. One doesn’t decide if the breach gave an advantage or not. A rule is a rule. And a beach of that rule is a breach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

2 hours ago, ejm1994 said:

The entire point of rules in sports is to keep a player from gaining an advantage in an unfair way. 

The entire point of rules (ie penalties) in golf is to keep a player from gaining a potential advantage in an unfair way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Rulesman said:

The entire point of rules (ie penalties) in golf is to keep a player from gaining a potential advantage in an unfair way.

@ejm1994 this makes a difference. If a player carries 15 clubs and never once touched that extra club, did he gain an advantage? No. Is it a penalty? Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2020 TST Partners

    PING Golf
    FlightScope Mevo
  • Posts

    • Finding an instructor is the problem. I'm gun shy. The first guy, I worked with, let him make the changes, which were unconventional, and it destroyed me. The second guy wasn't as bad, but we didn't click. I'm not a "player". I don't use forged irons. When i make a good swing, it's very good, but I don't always make that swing. I'm not presenting myself as a low handicapper in high handicapper clothes. But, I am a legit 24, and I can, and do play lower on occasion. I'm an 18 hole a week golfer, 9 on Wed. 9 on Sunday. I know you can't buy a game, but I'm certain you can buy a better game. Before I bought the XR, a high percentage of my drives were right, in the trees, or OB. Now, it's not a common thing, but I still do it. The draw bias is huge for me. So with that in mind, I ask opinions about XR vs. newer drivers. As further explanation, my league is 40 man, 10 4 man teams. C 0-4 handicap, 1 4-9 handicap, 2 9-12 handicap, 3 12 and up. I clock in as a 2 man. I go up and down during the season, as low as 9, and as high as 13. I finished as a 10. It's not uncommon for me to play better than the 1 men when I'm in their group. I'm an average golfer, and age does matter, I've seen my length shorten even while my technique has improved.  I bought new irons, I'm curious about drivers, and I've been working on the most important tool, my body. It's not easy at 62, but I have built up some strength, and I'm anxious to put that to good use. But, wherever you go, I guess there are people that can do a detailed diagnosis with fragments of information. I'm not referring to you. So, that is my mindset, and situation.
    • Sort of in line with this, I was recently told about the potential for a home owner to have a right to their view at the time the property was purchased.  At first, I thought that it was BS, but I guess view ordinances as they are called, exist. It is up to a city, though, to adopt one, mostly for homes that have views of a lake or ocean or similar.  The course I'm at has a ton of land to cover, so to always try and trim the blackberries or alders back from around people's homes may never happen.  The person who told me about it said he had heard about the right to a view in Seattle, which makes sense, but for us not really.  In the OP's case, it's different, but if there were a view ordinance, it could effect the decision. 
    • Posting scores where liberties are taken do nothing but hurt , or make a fool of, those that do it. Sandbaggers , posting higher than usual scores , or not posting low scores, ought to be taken out back and whipped and outed with their picture in the pro shop
    • It's interesting that you can draw such conclusions based on a very small amount of information. 
    • Good fences 😉 This is a hideous 65’ tall monstrosity that he erected without permits that violates zoning laws.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. BreakingBadly
      BreakingBadly
      (37 years old)
    2. dreamcrusher28
      dreamcrusher28
      (48 years old)
    3. jfmario20
      jfmario20
      (37 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...