Busting Out of the Barrel - Why Turning in a Barrel is Wrong in 4,014 words

[billchao]

43 minutes ago, wannabe said:

Could this be the reason for the comparison, as opposed to the hips - more focus on  steady head/shoulders?

I've seen the phrase used in reference to the hips. Advocates want golfers to rotate the hips and not slide them, despite a good golf swing having both motions.

45 minutes ago, wannabe said:

I know every time I've tried to swing in a barrel, I end up reverse pivoting and spinning out.

Yea that's generally what happens. Getting extension with the lead leg will push the hips towards the target, so in order to "turn in a barrel" a golfer would have to hang back on their trail foot.

[Patch]

I have heard the "turning in the barrel " phraise for quite a few decades. It's still a popular phraise to this day. 

Thing is, I just figured it was a metaphor for the sake of comparison. The comparison being to have one facing their target on the follow through. 

I never thought it was meant to be taken literally. 

[Hardspoon]

FWIW, when my wife took a golf lesson, her instructor used the "turn in a barrel" feel (I believe he called it "turning in a garbage can") only to help her avoid swaying backwards during her backswing.  He never explained it as having anything to do with the downswing.

[billchao]

6 minutes ago, Patch said:

I have heard the "turning in the barrel " phraise for quite a few decades. It's still a popular phraise to this day. 

Thing is, I just figured it was a metaphor for the sake of comparison. The comparison being to have one facing their target on the follow through. 

I never thought it was meant to be taken literally. 

Unfortunately in golf instruction, many things meant to be imagery get misconstrued and taken literally.

[RussUK]

Tom Watson uses this in his book. I think its often interpreted wrong, maybe rather than "rotate your hips in the barrell dont slide" it could be "slide the hips then rotate but stay in the barrell"? it could be just talking rubbish per the norm

Also, no-one seems to mention the size of the barrell, whiskey barrell, or industrial oil barrell?. I think in this case size does matter

 

[Piz]

The concept (turning in a barrel) can be found in a 1946 publication On Learning Golf by Percy Boomer.  The author grew up on Jersey and his father, himself a professional golfer, was the village schoolmaster.  Among his pupils were Harry Vardon and Ted Ray.  I think Mr. Boomer's conceptual understanding, like that of Ernest Jones, was informed by a hickory shaft.  It is an interesting and well-written book as well as a window to a bygone era.

[JonMA1]

On 9/6/2018 at 9:47 PM, Hardspoon said:

FWIW, when my wife took a golf lesson, her instructor used the "turn in a barrel" feel (I believe he called it "turning in a garbage can") only to help her avoid swaying backwards during her backswing.  He never explained it as having anything to do with the downswing.

I've always believed this was the intent.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 9/7/2018 at 4:35 AM, RussUK said:

Tom Watson uses this in his book. I think its often interpreted wrong, maybe rather than "rotate your hips in the barrell dont slide" it could be "slide the hips then rotate but stay in the barrell"? it could be just talking rubbish per the norm

Also, no-one seems to mention the size of the barrell, whiskey barrell, or industrial oil barrell?. I think in this case size does matter

 

I think  you have a point. If you look at the pics in the OP, in none of them does the golfer's left hip get outside of the left foot! Then go look at a bunch of amateurs. You'll see reverse pivots, or guys swaying all over the place who have never heard of "turn in a barrel".

I think this is just a method of speaking about certain things, and trying to convey information in a concise manner.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

I've always believed this was the intent.

That may be how you took it. It’s definitely not how many have meant it. Many talk about how bad a “slide” is forward.

32 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I think  you have a point. If you look at the pics in the OP, in none of them does the golfer's left hip get outside of the left foot! Then go look at a bunch of amateurs. You'll see reverse pivots, or guys swaying all over the place who have never heard of "turn in a barrel".

The left hip gets outside the left foot from both dimensions quite frequently.

[Vinsk]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

That may be how you took it. It’s definitely not how many have meant it. Many talk about how bad a “slide” is forward.

This. And I said earlier it's exactly what my former instructor tried to get me to do. He placed an alignment rod against my lead hip at address and told me 'don't let your hip touch the stick at anytime during your swing.' And he's not an old school guy, he's 26 years old.

[JonMA1]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

It’s definitely not how many have meant it. Many talk about how bad a “slide” is forward.

What pisses me off about that is they probably have a good hip slide and don't realize it while I know it needs to happen and can't accomplish it.

I had a co-worker tell me that Ben Hogan didn't move his hips forward. I just didn't realize there were many instructors who thought the same thing.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 9/8/2018 at 9:30 PM, iacas said:

That may be how you took it. It’s definitely not how many have meant it. Many talk about how bad a “slide” is forward.

The left hip gets outside the left foot from both dimensions quite frequently.

I think the "slide" forward only gets bad if the head and shoulders go along with it. I've had this problem on occasion, and @wannabe referred to it in his post when he talked about the head and shoulders appear to be staying in the barrel. I once read about the hips moving vs the head not moving as a golfer functioning as a "double pendulum", but that idea gets a little complicated! 

As far as the terminology goes, physically you have to have hips a yard wide to touch both sides of a barrel simultaneously. This is where @RussUK's post comes into play. I once read a tip to practice hip slide, the "door jamb drill". Set up in a doorway with the outside of your left foot (RH golfer) against the jamb. Fold your arms across you chest and mimic a golf swing. When you initiate the downswing allow your hips to slide until your left hip contacts the door jamb, and then turn through. 

This obviously advocates a certain amount of hip slide. And I completely agree that starting your turn directly from the top is an absolute death move! 

But, as far as the left hip getting outside the left foot, I went back and looked at the pics in your OP. After some perusal it occurred to me that all those nice red boxes you drew sprang from the inside of the golfer's left foot. How about you expand those boxes so the one edge springs from the outside of the golfer's left foot? Let's see how things look then. 

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

But, as far as the left hip getting outside the left foot, I went back and looked at the pics in your OP

I don’t believe @iacas posted those pics to show the left hip going beyond the left foot. That’s not the point. The point is the lead hip moves forward from where it began due to a slide and not just a rotation. You can find pics of players who’s hips are past their lead foot. But that’s not the point here.

[Puttin4Dough]

On 4/29/2018 at 11:25 AM, iacas said:

Tiger, Ben, Justin, and Jack would have busted out of their barrels:

Further reading:

You're comparing reverse K swings to modern swings.  Yes, even the modern swing moves outside the barrel, but it's far less.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Puttin4Dough

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Puttin4Dough said:

You're comparing reverse K swings to modern swings.  Yes, even the modern swing moves outside the barrel, but it's far less.

I’m not really “comparing” anything. My point is that good golfers slide, they don’t just turn in a barrel.

[Puttin4Dough]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

I’m not really “comparing” anything. My point is that good golfers slide, they don’t just turn in a barrel.

I think turning in the barrel is easier for folks to think about as a step towards not simply swaying back and forth.  The tough part about golf is there's not a clear "step in to hit" move like other sports.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Puttin4Dough said:

I think turning in the barrel is easier for folks to think about as a step towards not simply swaying back and forth.  The tough part about golf is there's not a clear "step in to hit" move like other sports.

That's fine for the backswing, but for the downswing, as illustrated, there's "kind of" a sway (the head doesn't go, but the hips definitely do).

[nevets88]

Maybe one way to think of it is busting out and the shards of the barrel go left, instead of forward?