Traditional Lofts versus Modern Lofts

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I replaced that 3 iron with a 3 hybrid with @ 210 carry distance. It is more versatile and reliable and can be knocked down quite effectively.

Just put the 3 iron back in the bag. The 3 hybrid has just been annoying me as of late and I have been hitting the 3 iron on the screws. It's probably all in my head, but it just feels so much better to hit the iron. Don't worry, the 2 hybrid is staying in the bag.

[Jeremie Boop]

It would seem like the reason for changing the loft is less to "stroke egos" than due to clubs being able to get the ball in the air easier with new technology, both in club head design and shaft set up. I don't care if it takes me an 8i to go 150 or 9i as long as the ball flight is good and the distance is consistent.

[birlyshirly]

Some good reading in this thread - sorry I'm late to the party.

A couple of thoughts to add. Bear in mind that I'm coming to this from a starting assumption that it would make sense just to have straight 4* gaps through the irons - which is what I believe was the "traditional" (as in pre-1970s) standard, and also that I know the way in which short iron lofts have been squeezed by manufacturers for "extra" distance.

First point. I have some "classic" era sets of irons - Mizunos and Hogans. In both cases, there's a loft spread of 30 degrees from 2i to PW (ie 8 gaps). Regardless of what loft you set the PW at, it would still have been possible to cover the gaps between clubs in a much more evenly spaced increment. So, I'm inclined to think there's more to this than simply "loft creep". Both sets have a 5* gap between 9 and PW (and a larger gap between PW and SW), 4* gaps through the other short and mid irons, and 3* between long irons. Between 2 iron and 1 iron (should you want to go there) - you'll find only 2*, at least with Mizuno. You might think there's some logic to that pattern - smaller gaps between long irons, larger gaps between shorter irons. Both companies could have gone with much more even gaps (and Hogan lofts were stated to 0.5*), but didn't. The question is why?

Do changes in loft have a more pronounced effect when loft is lower? (assuming you have enough clubhead speed to launch the ball properly).

Or is it easier to finesse in-between yardages with short irons?

Second point. Supposing you don't like the gaps in your current set. Is it straightforward to adjust them? I don't mean physically - I have a loft/lie machine and it's no problem at least with forged irons. I question whether the weight distribution designed into an iron is specific to the intended loft. I think, when you bend a club weaker, at the same time you are lowering the CoG. I bent my Hogans to 4* gaps, and I bent the 2 iron 2.5* weak and the PW 2* weak into the bargain. The long irons became (duh) much easier to launch - but I also found some clubs that I felt ballooned ridiculously. Could have been me - could have been a flip. Or maybe there's a limit to how far from original spec you can depart before the dynamics of the club are dramatically impaired.

I've just bent my Hogan's back to original spec - and will see how I get on. Obviously, I'm expecting to see extra distance out of most irons - but I'm curious to see whether I have a "better" ballflight.

[georgeshot]

I've gotten performance from my Cleveland TA-5s gunmetal irons: 5-iron (27°), 6-iron (30°), 7-iron (33.5°), 8-iron (37°), 9-iron (41°), PW (45°). I dumped the 3-iron (21°) and 4-iron (24°) from the set and opted to not get the D-wedge (50°) and SW (55°) that were optional because I already had 588 gunmetal wedges GW (51°) and SW (57°) that I really liked. So I really only use the PW for full shots. I chip and pitch, and hit < 80 yard shots with the 51° 588 wedge. I have a Ping G25 4-hybrid (23°), a Ping G20 4-wood (16.5°) that are my distance clubs and I can pretty much cover any type of "long shots" with these two clubs.

[Always an 80]

All this heady discussion from real golfers has crushed my self esteem. I will now go play my xbox.

[mad max]

All this heady discussion from real golfers has crushed my self esteem. I will now go play my xbox.

Hey at least your a better golfer on xbox then all these guys are in real life.

[nick1998bunker]

I have Wilson Staff Ci9 irons that I just cut down 2 inches short (1 inch from where they were) and the lofts are 44-23 pw-4 iron. I am looking to make them more accurate rather than long, thus the shorting, and was wondering how I should edit the lofts. Im thinking maybe weakening them 1 or 2 degrees, how would that affect distance and playability?

[jmanbooyaa]

I have the cobra Amp cell irons. Standard length bent 2* upright. I currently do not use a 6 iron. My set up is 7-lw 23* hybrid,5 wood and 10.5* driver. My question is since my current set is 6i-27* 7i-31* 8i- 35* 9i-39* pw-44* gw-49* sw-54* lw-58* would it a) make sense to make the 6i-29* 7i-33* 8i-37* 9i-41* pw-45* gw-49* sw-54* lw-58* b) what would a 2 degree loft change do besides a little less distance? C) would bending the irons allow me to hit the 6 iron better since there is more loft? I currently hit my 7i-150-156 8i-145-150. Correct me if I am wrong but my 7 iron is really more like a 6 or 5 iron of years ago right?

[onthehunt526]

Your 31° 7-iron is like a 6-iron in the 90s, (though some players sets still have their 6-irons at that loft) and a 5-iron traditionally... Here is a comparison of Game Improvement irons from now, and we'll use the best selling irons of all time the Ping Eye 2's from 1983.... Club. Eye2. Amp Cell 1. 16. N.a. 2. 18. N.a 3. 21. 19 4. 24. 21.. 5. 28. 24 6. 32. 27 7. 36. 31 8. 40. 35 9. 45. 39 PW. 50.5. 44 GW. N.a. 49 SW. 57.5. 54 LW. 61 ('86) 58 As you can see in the roughly 30 years since the release of the Eye 2 irons (the greatest selling iron set of all time, if you don't believe me look it up, Ping made Eye2 and Eye2+ as an in line model for 18 years I'm not kidding 2000 was the last year Ping made a variation of the Eye 2)... GI irons are 1 club stronger loft wise and basically 1 club longer length wise... the only thing that is the same is the weight,of the skinheads because if a clinched doesn't fall within a certain,range weight wise is cannot be considered that club... don't believe me, have a club fitter weigh the heads of a seven-iron from the 70s 80s 90s 00s 10s I would be willing to say that they are all within 5 grams of each other

[jmanbooyaa]

Cool post. I took away from your post. Lose the 6 iron and go off the fact that my 7 is my 6. Maybe bend all my irons 7-sw 1 degree. And possibly add another wedge that fits in the above a referenced numbers u added and be done with it. If I so desired.

[onthehunt526]

Cool post. I took away from your post. Lose the 6 iron and go off the fact that my 7 is my 6. Maybe bend all my irons 7-sw 1 degree. And possibly add another wedge that fits in the above a referenced numbers u added and be done with it. If I so desired.

You could probably leave your PW at 44° and weaken your 7-8-9 so you would have something to the effect of 32-36-40-44-49-54-58... I just picked up a set with slightly stronger lofts... (need a little more forgiveness my problem is going to be the PW-GW gap I'll have from 4-LW 23-26-29-33-37-41-45-52-56-60.... I thought of going 50-56-60 or 50-54-58, but I usually don't hit my wedges (GW, SW, LW) full... and I still have my little chippy PW that will fill my gap so I might be just fine... I was playing very traditional lofts in my V-Blades from 2000 And I have 1-PW in that set which went... 17-19-21-24-28-32-36-40-44.5-49... it will be interesting when I get my Exotics CU irons where the gaps will fall and see where I pick up distance, which I'm sure I will gain about 5 yards per club or so...

[jmanbooyaa]

I may just do that but am a bit nervous about changing the lofts I am not too familiar with the affect to the bounce.

[onthehunt526]

I may just do that but am a bit nervous about changing the lofts I am not too familiar with the affect to the bounce.

Very simply put, change the loft by one degree, you change the bounce by one degree... so if you add one degree of loft, you'll add one degree of bounce... not a HUGE deal on 7, 8, and 9 irons...

[jmanbooyaa]

Thank you for the info.

[Chad Ryan]

I am NOT a fan on the stronger "modern" lofts on irons. It makes it harder to have seamless gaps on both ends of the bag. Plus it brings the launch angles down. Not to mention they usually make the irons a little longer when they do that too.

[mvmac]

I am NOT a fan on the stronger "modern" lofts on irons. It makes it harder to have seamless gaps on both ends of the bag. Plus it brings the launch angles down. Not to mention they usually make the irons a little longer when they do that too.

Part of the reason lofts are stronger is because they design irons with the center of gravity low and away from the face. Making the lofts stronger doesn't automatically lower the ball flight, there is more to the launch angle than the loft.

Good post for you to check out

http://thesandtrap.com/t/77828/tv-ad-said-that-callaway-irons-20-yd-longer/36#post_1070577

[onthehunt526]

Part of the reason lofts are stronger is because they design irons with the center of gravity low and away from the face. Making the lofts stronger doesn't automatically lower the ball flight, there is more to the launch angle than the loft.  Good post for you to check out [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/77828/tv-ad-said-that-callaway-irons-20-yd-longer/36#post_1070577]http://thesandtrap.com/t/77828/tv-ad-said-that-callaway-irons-20-yd-longer/36#post_1070577[/URL]

Ping learned that the hard way... when the Eye2 irons were released they didn't have Launch Monitors and such and all of this technical data... When the Eye2+ irons came out in '88 they had two main differences from the Original Eye2 irons... the 9-LW were stronger lofted... 9 (44) W (48.5) S (53) L(58)... and they had U-Grooves... they realized this and when they released the Zing irons they were a little stronger... the Zing2 was the first iron set to feature 6 different wedge lofts... they had a 47° pitching wedge, the a W2 with 49.5°, S1 had 52°, S2 54.5°, S3 57°, LW 61°... that I thought was they had a very low CG... the Lowest CG iron I think I have ever played was the Adams GT2 Undercut Irons from Like 2005, they hit the ball very high though considering strong lofts from 6-iron down, then I did something you should never do with an SGI set, and that is weaken the 6-pw lofts and Strengthen the Sand and Lob wedges (if you need to change the loft of your wedges if you are an average player, depending on the condition of the course, it's better to have to increase the loft than decrease it because you lose bounce if you decrease it)... and the ball launched way too high... But Mike is absolutely right... in GI and SGI irons, the static loft doesn't mean much anymore... the CG is so low that the launch angle is higher... in so many words... today's 44-46° PW launches just as high as a 1970s-80s 50° PW... it just goes farther

[jmanbooyaa]

Went to the PGATSS and basically said there was a good chance of snapping or cracking my 7 iron head if they weakened the loft 1 degree. No big deal just will use my 7 as a strong 6 iron and subsequent irons accordingly