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iacas

Florida Mid-Am Ends in (Alleged) Face Punch?

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https://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/cops-called-bizarre-ending-florida-mid-am/

There's the story.

What I find interesting is that the "advice" given does not really seem to meet the definition of advice.

Quote

Both in his statement to police and in a subsequent phone interview afterward, Golden, 33, said that the alleged incident stemmed from a rules dispute on the ninth hole during the championship match. As he surveyed his putt, Golden asked Dull whether the cup was damaged or if there was loose debris around the edge.

“Don’t worry about it,” Hibbs reportedly told Golden. “If you’re going to make it, you’re going around it.”

With tensions already running high because of what he perceived as breaches of etiquette by his opponents, Golden informed the rules official in the group that he believed Hibbs’ statement constituted advice. The penalty was a loss of hole, giving Golden a 2-up lead at the turn.

Huh?

P.S. I misread it at first as "If you're gonna make it, you're gonna make it." As in "that won't affect your putt."

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48 minutes ago, iacas said:

What I find interesting is that the "advice" given does not really seem to meet the definition of advice.

Is it?

Would this decision be more inline with what happened?

Quote

8-1/16

Suggesting to Competitor That He Deem His Ball Unplayable

Q.B's ball was lying badly. B was deliberating what action to take when A, his fellow-competitor, said: "You have no shot at all. If I were you, I would deem the ball unplayable." Was A giving advice, contrary to Rule 8-1?

A.Yes. A's suggestion could have influenced B "in determining his play." Thus, it constituted advice - see Definition of "Advice." It did not constitute "information on the Rules," which is not advice.

Wouldn't mentioning how the ball should travel past that debris would help the player determine were to hit his putt?

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22 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Wouldn't mentioning how the ball should travel past that debris would help the player determine were to hit his putt?

I don't know. I had added a P.S. at about the same time as you posted which said I originally misread the statement. But I still don't know if that rises to the level of advice. If something is "weird" on the far left side of the hole… does that matter? Is it advice to say "it's not important because you're putting from over there"?

I can see how saying something like "the wind won't affect this shot because we're in a valley" is advice. But the above? Still not sure.

Anyway, this isn't in the Rules of Golf forum, because we have virtually no information about what "debris" or "damage" there was.

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Bizarre. Golden does not come across well in that article. 

To call a rules official over that comment is a bush-league move, no matter how intense your match is. I am surprised that the rules official would actually assess a penalty. 

The alleged assault is a complete "he-said/she-said" situation, so I'm not going to comment, beyond saying that the fact that police found no evidence sufficient to support those charges is somewhat telling.

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I don’t know the caddie but I know Dull’s 4 ball partner very well. Highly doubt a caddie sucker punched a competitor during a rain delay. Especially at as big of a stage as the Mid Am. I actually saw a Snapchat of Dull and a few other guys playing horse on a basketball hoop during the rain delay, so who knows. 

Dull can beat almost anyone with just a hybrid and will bet you he can, so I’m sure the guy was mad he wasn’t playing well or whatever. Having poor etiquette isn’t in the rules, so he probably wasn’t mentally strong enough to beat Dull regardless. 

I dont see the comment as advice. 

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Very strange. I cant see what the problem is. If someone asks if the cup is damaged, as in the article, its just good manners to answer. Maybe the caddie's response was a little conveluted, had he said "no its fine" or "it its, get the official" that may have been a little clearer.

Re the punch, at least he appologised in advance for decking the poor bloke :-D 

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What I don't get is, If someone is concerned that the cup might be damaged, who wouldn't just go over and look at the cup? 

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A bizarre and intriguing story but unfortunately we will never know what really happened.  My initial thought is that Dull's caddie (Hibbs) needs to keep his mouth shut.  If the opponent (Golden) asks about possible damage and loose impediments, then Dull should review the situation and discuss it.  Yes, a player and their caddie are a team but the caddie should take their cue from the player and generally not insert themselves into a discussion unless the player asks for their assistance.

My second thought is that Golden making a claim of "advice" against Dull (& his caddie) was ridiculous.  What's next, asking an opponent to move their marker multiple times in hopes they forget to replace it?  Maybe the statement amounted to advice (i.e. suggested the putt would break) but no matter how irritating an opponent, no one should seek a Ruling for something as trivial as that.

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If he thought the cup was damaged or had stuff on it that would effect his putt why didn't he just ask the tournament official. As for the caddie I don't know if that was advice or him just being a smart ass. Either way if you are going to make that putt you would probably have to go around it anyway wouldn't you?

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