A Common Error in Accuracy vs. Distance

[MarvChamp]

20 minutes ago, MarvChamp said:

OK, you silver-tongued salesman! Thanks for TST. It's my daily shot. -Marv

It's done and paid for, @iacas

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, MarvChamp said:

It's done and paid for, @iacas

Okey dokey. They'll probably ship tomorrow or Wednesday. The next batch. Award awarded.

[MarvChamp]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Okey dokey. They'll probably ship tomorrow or Wednesday. The next batch. Award awarded.

Thank you. I will practice my, No, sweetie...It's NOT just another golf book! -Marv

[Carl3]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

Award awarded.

I bought it and had hoped to have finished it by now. I am on page 195. I was assuming you had to finish it to get the award.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Carl3 said:

I bought it and had hoped to have finished it by now. I am on page 195. I was assuming you had to finish it to get the award.

Ideally, sure. To any others, please use the topic here to claim awards/achievements:

 

[JonMA1]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Again this is exactly the sort of thinking that's holding people back.

Hopefully, this doesn't come across as argumentative. I'm just trying to figure out how this way of thinking may affect an individual's decision-making....

1. Do you mean that some take less club off the tee to play it safe?

2. Do you mean some swing easier to play it safe?

3. Do you mean that some choose not to learn how to swing faster or develop as much power as their ability would allow because they believe longer is more costly?

[iacas]

Just now, JonMA1 said:

Hopefully, this doesn't come across as argumentative. I'm just trying to figure out how this way of thinking may affect an individual's decision-making....

It's not argumentative, it just has almost nothing to do with the topic.

The topic isn't about specific cases where, say, there are bunkers at 300 yards so a longer hitter opts to hit a 3-wood to lay back short of them.

It's about the age-old distance vs. accuracy.

Yes, for some shorter distances, 75 yards is the "difference" in being in the fairway vs. being in the rough, but that math doesn't work when the longer hitters are gaining 30 yards or whatever on EVERY tee shot and only finding the rough one or two more times than the shorter more accurate hitters.

That's the point of the topic. I don't know what the point of questions 1 and 2 are. Of course people do those things sometimes. Without knowing the specific situations, who knows if they're right or wrong to have done that?

Just now, JonMA1 said:

3. Do you mean that some choose not to learn how to swing faster or develop as much power as their ability would allow because they believe longer is more costly?

That's the only part of your post that, IMO, touches on the actual topic.

Yeah, some people are swayed by the "I'd rather be more accurate than longer" argument because they think "long" means "in the trees all the time."

Which is, far more often than not, an error in thinking.

[JonMA1]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah, some people are swayed by the "I'd rather be more accurate than longer" argument because they think "long" means "in the trees all the time."

I can't speak for others, but if I had the ability for a 115 mph swing speed, I'd try to get as close to maximum speed as I thought I could without getting wild. Maybe that would be 108, or 110 or whatever. In other words, I may be holding back while trying to learn and develop some mechanics, but once that happens, It's not like I'm staying at 88mph (or whatever my current swing speed is) with an ability to swing at 115. 

Sorry I'm missing the point(s) as much as I seem to be. But if I swung the club as fast as I could, I would be in the trees too often. On the other hand, if I had the ability to swing at a high speed, I wouldn't stay where I currently am.

I'm not proud of averaging 210 yards with my driver, nor do I enjoy the penalties that come with trying to create more club head speed by simply swinging harder. Don't you think most of us want the distance?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

Sorry I'm missing the point(s) as much as I seem to be. But if I swung the club as fast as I could, I would be in the trees too often. 

The topic is not about you.

[JonMA1]

Just now, iacas said:

The topic is not about you.

C'mon Erik, that's not why I use myself as an example. Our own games are the only reference point some of us have. What's the point of discussing a topic and learning something if each of us can't apply that knowledge to our games?

I'm not disagreeing with you on any of this (at least I don't think I am). Just trying to understand how to use the information.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

C'mon Erik, that's not why I use myself as an example.

This topic isn't about you at all.

This topic is about PGA Tour players and, thus, better players. The farther you get from that example in the video in the OP, the less it applies. Hell, a lot of people at your ability level playing on courses you typically play prefer to play from the rough over the fairway because the ball often sits up a little bit.

2 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Our own games are the only reference point some of us have.

No, they're not. The OP contained reference points for PGA Tour players. We have thousands of stats and figures for better players. ESC has stats and figures for what 1° vs. 20 yards provides to average players. Etc.

2 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

What's the point of discussing a topic and learning something if each of us can't apply that knowledge to our games?

Not every post applies to your game. In this case, for two reasons:

1. You're nowhere near a PGA Tour player's level, or even a 6-handicapper's level.
2. Topics like this work off generalizations. Discussing any individual is often almost pointless, even if (in this case) it's a PGA Tour player.

2 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm not disagreeing with you on any of this (at least I don't think I am). Just trying to understand how to use the information.

I don't think it really applies to you.

[JonMA1]

Fair enough. My apologies @iacas.

[Casualgolfer]

I think maybe I am in the minority perhaps. I was just making a broad example at 230 and 330. I can in fact drive it 330+ no problem but that does come with it's hazards if you are off line. I can hit my 3 wood 280+ and am generally much more accurate with it as most people probably are. That is a 50 yard difference and there are many times when I should leave the driver in the bag. The longer you are off the box the better your fundamentals should be and your basic alignment. Again if I was a scratch golfer then I wouldn't worry as much but I'm a mid 80's golfer trying to break 80. 330 out of bounds adds a lot more to the scorecard than 280 in the fairway. Again I am probably in the minority as most people driving it 250 may benefit from hitting it 280 instead. Or maybe I just need to groove my driver and try to hit par 4's in one shot lol.

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, Casualgolfer said:

I can hit my 3 wood 280+ and am generally much more accurate with it as most people probably are. That is a 50 yard difference and there are many times when I should leave the driver in the bag. 

If you hit it 330 plus, then your 3-wood should be over 300 yards consistently. 

Most people are around 15-20 yards shorter with their 3-wood and are not that much more accurate with it. The woods really only take hazards out of play when they are in the driver landing/rollout area, not OB left or right. 

[Casualgolfer]

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If you hit it 330 plus, then your 3-wood should be over 300 yards consistently. 

Most people are around 15-20 yards shorter with their 3-wood and are not that much more accurate with it. The woods really only take hazards out of play when they are in the driver landing/rollout area, not OB left or right. 

Yes I can hit the 3 wood over 300 yards but there is a large difference between my driver and 3 wood physically. My driver is 5 degrees and my 3 wood is a stock d2 Titleist head. I just recently got this new driver and it is much longer than my Titleist D2 driver. The difference between my Titleist driver and 3 wood wasn't as large.

[p1n9183]

Old and worst advice at the same time. It´s easy, hit it as far as you can without putting penalty strokes into play more than 5%/10% of your shots (consider deep bunker too to avoid). 
   

[DrMJG]

I was given that advice when I started in the early 70's.  One very accomplished golfer said I needed to ignore the driver for a while and one use only my driving iron.  The fact was, at that time, distance was not really a big difference between the two, but the good old driving iron kept the ball way more in line than my persimmon.

With my return a bit over a year and a half ago, I had a whole new swath of weapons to learn: metal woods, hybrids, new angles on irons, graphite shafts, and the great difference in the balls.  So I decided to really start over physically and psychology.

Direction is, for me, often a matter of hitting the ball with good technique from address to follow through. So my practice slows down from time to time in a check down mode on the basics.

Speed for me is a dual concept. As I am now an old fart, I moved to senior flex on ALL my woods, hybrids and irons.  Speed picked up quite a lot. Speed is, as well for me keeping the body fully into the swing (as I cannot simply muscle anything). As my speed is now a bit more consistent, I have gone back to make sure my swing technique does not affect the shot: no slices or pushes, no hooks or pulls. 

What I have now is a workable combination that, usually, gives me better distance and predictable direction than 16 months ago.  Given age and a few physical limitations, I know a consistent 110-120 ball speed is wishful thinking. So in that respect, I may focus on direction a tad more, though I want as much speed as I can muster.

So, for me would I give up long for direction? I would say no because I want both to be in my arsenal!

[Nave]

Interesting discussion. Thank you for sharing.
I will get back to this post in the distant future if I ever become a scratch golfer. 😉

Until then I will try to hit it as far as possible without worrying too much about all the stats.
If the ball goes OB I will instead focus on fixing the swing mechanics instead of hitting it 'softer' and less far.