2018 U.S. Open at Shinnecock Hills

[CCC]

Shorty,

I'm not disparaging anyone's ability. And I never said 'debacle'. I don't care who wins. I'm not a betting man.

[Shorty]

3 minutes ago, CCC said:

Shorty,

I'm not disparaging anyone's ability. And I never said 'debacle'. I don't care who wins. I'm not a betting man.

In post #679 you wrote:

This debacle was less about the weather than the short sight of the USGA  to handle the weather.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Shorty

[BallStriker]

40 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

They did play the same golf course.

 

I will defer to David Duval - who has said that the golf course was completely different 

[CCC]

Yes, Shorty.

You busted me.

Sad but true. 🙂

[Shorty]

Just now, CCC said:

Yes, Shorty.

You busted me.

Sad but true. 🙂

In fairness to you, you were talking about the conditions, not the result.

 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, BallStriker said:

I will defer to David Duval - who has said that the golf course was completely different 

There's more to the conversation than taking a single quote out of context.

What's the USGA supposed to do - send everyone out in a shotgun?

[CCC]

Shorty,

You are too kind.

js

 

[nevets88]

So if Pinehurst is tabletop greens, what is Shinnecock? Soup bowl top?

[BallStriker]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

There's more to the conversation than taking a single quote out of context.

What's the USGA supposed to do - send everyone out in a shotgun?

What can they do?  They can prepare the course in a fashion so that it "generally" plays even for everyone...absent ridiculous weather

Could they have prepped this course so an "under par" scoere wins and everybody gets a fair shot at being rewarded for the same type of shots?  .....Yes, I think they could have..

Is it OK if -10 wins the US Open?  Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[iacas]

Just now, BallStriker said:

What can they do?  They can prepare the course in a fashion so that it "generally" plays even for everyone...absent ridiculous weather

How do you propose they would have done that this year?

The course doesn't have a Sub-Air system, so they can pump water/moisture/cool air into the sub-surface.

So again, seriously… a shotgun start? What?

The weather, it turns out, kinda was ridiculous. Could they have moved a few hole locations on 13 and 15? Yeah. Two greens.

Just now, BallStriker said:

Could they have prepped this course so an "under par" scoere wins and everybody gets a fair shot at being rewarded for the same type of shots?  .....Yes, I think they could have..

Is it OK if -10 wins the US Open?  Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with the last part, but I don't think it all applies to today's round.

I'm not gonna say they didn't make mistakes. But I don't think you realize how difficult it can be to set up a course so that it "plays the same" for a full day of play. Not without some extreme examples (shotgun starts would even play into the hands of some more than others, depending on what hole you started on, and I'm being facetious in even talking about a shotgun start, yes).

[BallStriker]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

How do you propose they would have done that this year?

No expert, but if they do not have a plan to avoid what is happening, there is a problem......plenty of other venues out there

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

The course doesn't have a Sub-Air system, so they can pump water/moisture/cool air into the sub-surface.

So again, seriously… a shotgun start? What?

Again......why pick a course you cannot control..........why?

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

The weather, it turns out, kinda was ridiculous. Could they have moved a few hole locations on 13 and 15? Yeah. Two greens.

Sorry for the weather.......ok, what....the weather was great today, after the cut.....are we worried about the guys that got hurt by the weather before the cut?  if so....

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

I agree with the last part, but I don't think it all applies to today's round.

gg

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm not gonna say they didn't make mistakes. But I don't think you realize how difficult it can be to set up a course so that it "plays the same" for a full day of play. Not without some extreme examples (shotgun starts would even play into the hands of some more than others, depending on what hole you started on, and I'm being facetious in even talking about a shotgun start, yes).

The ultimate question is.......should we be picking courses that are subject to so much variance?  

I apologize for my belief that the same apporach shot at 5 pm should not be fundamentally different than the same approach at 1 pm......let the golf shots make the difference....to the extent possible.....sorry, but the other majors seem to "get" this concept

[mvmac]

5 hours ago, Vinsk said:

USGA went by rule 14-5. Funny how after saying ‘Phil made a stroke at the ball, he didn’t stop it or deflect it.’ 

Reporter then asks, ‘ What would a deflection have looked like?’

I think Nobilo summed it up well when he said Phil wasn't using the rules to his advantage, he was just breaking them.

[Carl3]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

a shotgun start?

What is the downside of a shotgun start? They typically televise less than 3 or 4 hours of play.

[Zeph]

The interesting part of this Sunday is that distaster is close on every hole, and a player can quickly drop a lot of shots. There will still be wind today.

[boogielicious]

6 hours ago, BallStriker said:

What can they do?  They can prepare the course in a fashion so that it "generally" plays even for everyone...absent ridiculous weather

Could they have prepped this course so an "under par" scoere wins and everybody gets a fair shot at being rewarded for the same type of shots?  .....Yes, I think they could have..

Is it OK if -10 wins the US Open?  Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I am of different opinion than most, but I like the US Open to be won at even par. I want it to be hard. Let’s face it, these guys are incredible golfers. In the conditions we play, the game is easy for them. 

Here, the conditions make it hard for them because they don’t play it all the time. If they did, they would eventually figure it out and start going low. We have a formidable course with penal first cut, extremely penal fescue, lightning fast, firm greens and closely mown areas that are like vacuum cleaners drawing miscues yards away. I love it. It makes these guys look human for a change.

Berger and Finau now need to step up to the plate and repeat yesterday’s performance. It will be hard. DJ found that out yesterday. He was off target, a lot, and putted poorly. It cost him. But he still has a chance. They all do.

They have to play the course the way the find it, hit fairways and GIR and putt to win. Then need to adjust their approach to make this happen. We started seeing that yesterday, when the went with irons off the tee on 500+ yard par 4s just to get it in the fairway. The winner today will be aggressive and on target. Can’t wait to see it!

[iacas]

6 hours ago, BallStriker said:

I apologize for my belief that the same apporach shot at 5 pm should not be fundamentally different than the same approach at 1 pm......let the golf shots make the difference....to the extent possible.....sorry, but the other majors seem to "get" this concept

The other majors don't "get" it any more than the U.S. Open. The British Open is highly subject to the weather. The Masters and PGA Championship are played under some pretty adverse conditions sometimes, too.

Did you watch the 2002 British Open?

How about the last one at St. Andrews that Zach Johnson won? There was a round (may have been #3) there where the winds kicked up late and players were having balls moving around on the greens in the afternoon.

2 hours ago, Carl3 said:

What is the downside of a shotgun start?

The answers aren't obvious to you?

[jsgolfer]

47 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I guess I am of different opinion than most, but I like the US Open to be won at even par. I want it to be hard. Let’s face it, these guys are incredible golfers. In the conditions we play, the game is easy for them. 

Here, the conditions make it hard for them because they don’t play it all the time. If they did, they would eventually figure it out and start going low. We have a formidable course with penal first cut, extremely penal fescue, lightning fast, firm greens and closely mown areas that are like vacuum cleaners drawing miscues yards away. I love it. It makes these guys look human for a change.

Berger and Finau now need to step up to the plate and repeat yesterday’s performance. It will be hard. DJ found that out yesterday. He was off target, a lot, and putted poorly. It cost him. But he still has a chance. They all do.

They have to play the course the way the find it, hit fairways and GIR and putt to win. Then need to adjust their approach to make this happen. We started seeing that yesterday, when the went with irons off the tee on 500+ yard par 4s just to get it in the fairway. The winner today will be aggressive and on target. Can’t wait to see it!

I’m with you, I like the stern test, was it a little over the top, on a few holes definitely, but everyone plays the same course.  And as @iacas has said numerous times, you play yhe game outdoors, the weather can be drastically different for a variety of reasons.  I still think the best players normally win.  I love it.  I think it will be great theater today.  Can’t wait!

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

I’m with you, I like the stern test, was it a little over the top, on a few holes definitely, but everyone plays the same course.  And as @iacas has said numerous times, you play yhe game outdoors, the weather can be drastically different for a variety of reasons.  I still think the best players normally win.  I love it.  I think it will be great theater today.  Can’t wait!

This.

I'm not saying they didn't goof on a few holes. 13, 15… those hole locations could have probably been better chosen.

But beyond that… sometimes the holes were just difficult. Dustin Johnson didn't have to get above the hole on 18. He should have stayed below the hole.