Shot Clock on the PGA Tour

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

Paint with a broad brush much? FWIW, you're coming across as pretty arrogant. 

Really? ‘You’ve got homework’? That’s arrogance. I’m simply going by what you’ve said. ‘Golf is to be sipped like a fine wine’?

”Really slow play is aggravating”  Slow play is aggravating. Really slow play is a disaster 

Youve made nothing but comments that support a slower pace than most people care for and I’ve pointed it out to you.

No arrogance at all. 40sec is plenty of time to hit a golf ball. I don’t care if it’s for a $2 Nassau or a million dollars. 

The clock worked wonderful on the Euro tourney. How about you provide a good argument how it’s unnecessary for the PGA?

[fishgolf]

20 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Really? ‘You’ve got homework’? That’s arrogance. I’m simply going by what you’ve said. ‘Golf is to be sipped like a fine wine’?

”Really slow play is aggravating”  Slow play is aggravating. Really slow play is a disaster 

Youve made nothing but comments that support a slower pace than most people care for and I’ve pointed it out to you.

No arrogance at all. 40sec is plenty of time to hit a golf ball. I don’t care if it’s for a $2 Nassau or a million dollars. 

The clock worked wonderful on the Euro tourney. How about you provide a good argument how it’s unnecessary for the PGA?

I've been playing the sport for over 50 years and have rarely had any issues related to slow play. I've played through groups moving slower and allowed group faster to play through. Not everyone feels like racing through a round.  If that's your thing, good for you.

Likewise, I've watched PGA and LPGA golf on TV over that time and, except for a few occasions, don't find the pace a problem.  As I mentioned earlier, just penalize the chronic offenders.  No need for shot clocks on every fairway.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, fishgolf said:

Likewise, I've watched PGA and LPGA golf on TV over that time and, except for a few occasions, don't find the pace a problem.  As I mentioned earlier, just penalize the chronic offenders.  No need for shot clocks on every fairway.

You're in the minority on the pace of play on the PGA Tour. Again, over 70% of the European Tour players thought they had a pace of play problem, and they are a Tour which has enforced pace of play more than the PGA Tour with penalties.

The Shot Clock Masters was, IMO, a success. Round times dropped significantly while scoring improved slightly. Extensions were used when needed and players got around the course. Many loved it. The majority.

So how do you support - aside from saying that you "don't find it to be a problem" - the idea that the current pace of play on the PGA Tour can not or should not be improved? Do you think the problem is only a few "chronic" offenders?

[fishgolf]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

You're in the minority on the pace of play on the PGA Tour.

I'm fine with that...never been one to follow the herd.  A bit of a contrarian.

 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

So how do you support - aside from saying that you "don't find it to be a problem" - the idea that the current pace of play on the PGA Tour can not or should not be improved? Do you think the problem is only a few "chronic" offenders?

As I stated, I support reasonable speed of play both on and off the tour.  I also do not find televised tour events slow. That it's completed in 3-1/2 vs. 5 hours is of no issue to me. Sure, there are some noted exceptions that stand out (Cantlay for example), but they can easily address these without having NBA style shot clocks. Start adding some penalty strokes and they'll adjust accordingly.

[NJpatbee]

On 6/22/2018 at 7:02 AM, iacas said:

@NJpatbee players were given a few extensions.

That could change my opinion depending on what the criteria is for an extension is.

[Missouri Swede]

20 minutes ago, NJpatbee said:

That could change my opinion depending on what the criteria is for an extension is.

 

On 6/9/2018 at 9:54 AM, Missouri Swede said:

Watching the Euro tour this morning, they said that for this tournament, each player get 2 extensions per round (an extra 40 seconds per extension).

 

[NJpatbee]

14 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

 

 

That sounds reasonable although I could see additional extensions (may be 3 or 4) for major championships.

[Missouri Swede]

28 minutes ago, NJpatbee said:

That sounds reasonable although I could see additional extensions (may be 3 or 4) for major championships.

I also wonder whether some players would want more time than 80 seconds (40 +40) to assess some putts. One could argue that should be sufficient if you use your time wisely (especially if you’re not first to putt--and then it would be 90 seconds = 50+40).

And I don’t know how Spieth’s assessment of his options on the 13th hole at the Open Championship last year would have fit into this timekeeping. But I suspect the European Tour might have ways to account for such situations. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Missouri Swede

[Shindig]

33 minutes ago, NJpatbee said:

That sounds reasonable although I could see additional extensions (may be 3 or 4) for major championships.

I suspect that if the groups that run the various majors decide (individually or collectively) to add such a rule, they'll probably do more than a typical tour event for just this reason.  Or they'd do something like "two extensions plus one completely untimed shot" or the like.  I think two extensions for a normal tour event may work fine.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, fishgolf said:

I also do not find televised tour events slow.

It's televised. And if players played faster, guess what? You'd see more golf shots and more holes played by the leaders.

It's not just about televised golf, where operators can cut to a shot of a person about to hit a golf shot, even if they are out of the running or otherwise un-interesting (though they rarely do this), but about watching golf LIVE, too.

You aren't considering the pros of speeding up play, and you aren't considering anything more than what you see on television. Attend a PGA Tour event and I think you'll find the pace of play very, very slow.

[Vinsk]

8 hours ago, fishgolf said:

I'm fine with that...never been one to follow the herd.  A bit of a contrarian.

Exactly. Well behind the herd I’m sure. Most golfers out there don’t go home and say, ‘Boy I really held up the course today..’

They’re oblivious to it. If you’ve played for 50 years and never had a problem with slow play, chances are ....you’re the slow play. All the commercials and movements about ready golf, let's go while we’re young, etc..they’re talking to you. 

[fishgolf]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

It's televised. And if players played faster, guess what? You'd see more golf shots and more holes played by the leaders.

You're failing to understand that I don't care about tour events being played faster.  I enjoy watching tournament golf and the pace is fine with me.  You're simply placing way to much emphasis on fast play.

 

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

Attend a PGA Tour event and I think you'll find the pace of play very, very slow.

I've attended dozens of tour events over many years and, again, do not find the pace problematic.

20 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Exactly. Well behind the herd I’m sure. Most golfers out there don’t go home and say, ‘Boy I really held up the course today..’

They’re oblivious to it. If you’ve played for 50 years and never had a problem with slow play, chances are ....you’re the slow play. All the commercials and movements about ready golf, let's go while we’re young, etc..they’re talking to you. 

Well then, best hope you don't follow me on the course.  With an attitude like your projecting, I wouldn't let you play through and might even slow down a bit.

#speedgolfisoverrated

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

You're failing to understand that I don't care about tour events being played faster.  I enjoy watching tournament golf and the pace is fine with me.  You're simply placing way to much emphasis on fast play.

You're failing to understand that you have no real idea what the pace of play is like if you're judging it solely based on the television coverage.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, fishgolf said:

Well then, best hope you don't follow me on the course.  With an attitude like your projecting, I wouldn't let you play through and might even slow down a bit.

My attitude? Well there you go. You’re oblivious just as I said. No course in the world promotes slow play. You do. You wouldn’t let a faster group play thru? Nice attitude. Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino, Annika, and 99.9% of golfers don’t agree with your attitude. Shame. Thus lies the problem. People. Just. Like. You.

[fishgolf]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

You're failing to understand that you have no real idea what the pace of play is like if you're judging it solely based on the television coverage.

Incorrect. I said the pace of play watching tour events in person or televised is not an issue for me. I also said I rarely have issues with speed of play out on courses. I've played rounds as fast as 3:45 to darn near 6:00.  I like not ever waiting on the group ahead and having a nice continuous flow to the game but that's not reality on most public courses. As such, I choose not to make this a big issue.

14 hours ago, Vinsk said:

My attitude? Well there you go. You’re oblivious just as I said. No course in the world promotes slow play. You do. You wouldn’t let a faster group play thru? Nice attitude. Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino, Annika, and 99.9% of golfers don’t agree with your attitude. Shame. Thus lies the problem. People. Just. Like. You.

Umm, you're still projecting and painting with a broad brush. Everyone else is the problem but you... got it.

 

[Vinsk]

16 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

Umm, you're still projecting and painting with a broad brush. Everyone else is the problem but you... got it.

Umm. No. Not everyone. Just people like you. Slow play advocates. Most people don’t like slow play. That’s an accurate statement and I can use the largest brush I want on that one. No hard feelings here, you just don’t get it..like the vast majority of slow players. You’re a bit unique in that you said you’ll even do it on purpose...which is unfortunate and disrespectful to other players, but again, slow play doesn’t bother you so you don’t care how it affects anybody else. Again, the common thought of a slow player. 

I will always let a faster group/player play  through. That’s just common courtesy which you admitted you wouldn’t do and even slow down a bit. Lol. And then you call out my attitude. Pretty childish.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Vinsk

[fishgolf]

10 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

That’s just common courtesy which you admitted you wouldn’t do and even slow down a bit.

Incorrect.  Go back and re-read #74 and #84. 

[Vinsk]

16 hours ago, fishgolf said:

, I wouldn't let you play through and might even slow down a bit.

This? Incorrect?