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PGA Tour Players are Whiny Spoiled Babies?

Whiny, Spoiled Babies  

47 members have voted

  1. 1. Are today's PGA Tour players whiny, spoiled babies?

    • Yes
      15
    • No
      32


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I'm stealing this from GCA: Are today's PGA Tour players whiny, spoiled babies?

I'm not one for beating a dead horse, but as articles like this one continue to trickle out, my only impression is that the modern professional has become so obsessed with a different game than the one played by the masses that anything besides a standard PGA Tour setup is immediately labeled as "unfair." They might as well hold the US Open on Trackman. Otherwise, how will the "best" player be assured of winning?!

What I saw on Saturday at Shinnecock was a golf course that was playing very, very hard in windy conditions. What I didn't see was what the media seems to have adopted without real discussion, namely, that good shots were not being rewarded. Did the USGA need to set it up THAT hard to protect par? Probably not and, as other have pointed out, that probably didn't show off the course at its architectural best. However, several of the shots replayed ad nauseum as evidence of an "unfair" setup simply were poor course management.

For example, take the frequently replayed clips of #15. Stenson's play was absymal - he hit it in the rough, chased it from the wrong angle into the downslope of a bunker, short-sided, downwind and then everyone cries it's unfair he couldn't hold the green? In the same group, Rose hits the fairway, hits the green from the proper angle, drains a 15' birdie putt. Same could be said for #18 - hitting the ball above the hole was an absolutely no-no. It wasn't as if the players didn't know that. Those are execution errors: poor course management leading to extremely difficult recovery shots. The average player seems to accept that one poor shot can lead to a position from which an excellent recovery is nearly impossible. Pros seem to view every shot as if it requires them to be able to hit it stiff. If not - UNFAIR!

Augusta National seems to be immune from this type of whining out of fear of offending the club, but imagine if a US Open featured a hole like 15 where players were spinning wedges back into the water (as Sergio did 5x) or where it was easy to chip into a pond. The same could be said for shots at 11, 12 or unstoppable chips on 16. The difference? At Augusta, the "patrons gasp" but, as anyone who listened to the broadcast can attest, at the US Open bad shots can evoke laughter. For what it's worth, the fans certainly weren't turned off by the course setup as the TV ratings were the second-best third round of the U.S. Open since 2013 (3.7, 5.4M).

Deep down, this generation of pros thinks they're so good that they aren't willing to submit to a difficult test. The snowflakes hate being laughed at...


Back to me now… I'm not saying (nor is the OP, I don't think) that PGA Tour players don't work hard. But I think he makes a valid point above.

Also, note how often the PGA Tour will play lift, clean, and place instead of playing the ball down. Yes, they're there for entertainment, not to grind out a 74… but sometimes dealing with the conditions is entertaining, too.

P.S. I haven't voted yet.

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There are some players who I would consider "whiny", but overall no, I don't think they are. I think there was some room for legitimate complaints about a few things in the US Open, but I don't think the whole thing was badly set up or run.

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I agree pretty much. I'm tired of players who:

1. Yell  "Come on wind!" when they hit it left or right of the green in  a whiny, amazed/frustrated voice, as if their shot was perfect. (Spieth is good at this.)

2. Point to the side of the hole they should have aimed at but missed and then stare at their caddy in stunned silence when they misread a putt as if the Gods are conspiring against them.

3. Yell out "mud ball!" when a long iron or fairway wood misses the green. (Bubba is awesome at doing this.)

4. Behave as if they've been robbed when they see a less than perfect lie in a bunker.

5. Shake their heads in disbelief and "laugh" when a poorly judged chip shot rolls back towards them.

6. Completely ignore polite applause from galleries who are being courteous and nice as they walk back to their caddy after getting anything worse than a birdie.

 

Edited by Shorty

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5 minutes ago, Shorty said:

I agree pretty much. I'm tired of players who:

1. Yell  "Come on wind!" when they hit it left or right of the green in  a whiny, amazed/frustrated voice, as if their shot was perfect. (Spieth is good at this.)

2. Point to the side of the hole they should have aimed at but missed and then stare at their caddy in stunned silence when they misread a putt as if the Gods are conspiring against them.

3. Yell out "mud ball!" when a long iron or fairway wood misses the green. (Bubba is awesome at doing this.)

4. Behave as if they've been robbed when they see a less than perfect lie in a bunker.

5. Shake their heads in disbelief and "laugh" when a poorly judged chip shot rolls back towards them.

6. Completely ignore polite applause from galleries who are being courteous and nice as they walk back to their caddy after getting anything worse than a birdie.

 

I think you forgot at least one:

7. Emphatically mash down a "spike mark" after missing a short putt so everybody knows it wasn't your fault. ;)

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Just now, Golfingdad said:

I think you forgot at least one:

7. Emphatically mash down a "spike mark" after missing a short putt so everybody knows it wasn't your fault. 😉

You're absolutely correct! :-)

 

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I am going with what I read on various sports media outlets for my opinion. 

Some are whiney. Some more are both spoiled,  and whiney. Then are quite a few who are who just take their medicine and play on. 

I tend to think the bigger names are most of the members of the "spoiled & whiney" group. 

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I think they are accustomed to playing courses set up in a certain way most every time, and have come to expect a certain base level of ‘playability’ (rough height, green speed, pin placements). They certainly complain when thier normal shots don’t have ‘expected’ results. 

They generally execute ‘superb, excellent, or very good’ shots and get upset with any poor results.  

I think this expectation, along with the pressure they play under accounts for their frustration. It shows the most  clearly only occasionally (during majors) where they are having thier worst shots, and some normally ‘acceptable’ shots heavily, instead of moderately penalized. 

Amatuers complain just as much, if not more when our results are not good. 

But we have our lack of talent and execution to blame more readily than PGA Tour players.

We amateurs execute ‘very good, pretty good, poor, or very poor’ shots and can more easily understand when things don’t work out. 

It’s also interesting to me how the pros play very difficult courses that are set up to play more easily, with perfectly manicured fairways, greens and rough, plus tamped down rough from spectators, and tons of help from spectators and volunteers/staff to locate balls. Not to mention rules officials at thier beck and call to answer any questions and help the take the best advantage of the rules possible. 

While we all generally play the opposite, which are easy (short) courses that are not set up much at all, and have bumpy greens, long rough, and no help finding lost balls, not to mention other inconsistencies through and on the greens.

It certainly seems from our perspective that they have little to complain about.

But if I hit 10 or 14 approach shots in a round that literally struck the greens (LOL for me, not in this decade!), and more than half of those rolled off said greens.... I’d be beside myself with frustration, no matter the stage or the stakes, but ESPECIALLY in a major championship. 

Having said all that, I voted yes because, at the end of the day, big picture.. they are playing the greatest game in the world for a living. And a good living, too for most (all?) of them. 

“Course was unfair this week! Only made 55k for the week due to my poor finish!”

But I get it. They are human, and it is golf. Whining shall happen.

 

 

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1 hour ago, sofingaw said:

Not to mention rules officials at thier beck and call to answer any questions and help the take the best advantage of the rules possible. 

Are you kidding?

They pretty much only use rules officials to confirm rules that you learn in your first week of playing the game.

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51 minutes ago, Shorty said:

Are you kidding?

They pretty much only use rules officials to confirm rules that you learn in your first week of playing the game.

No, I’m not kidding.

And they do not only use rules officials to confirm rules. They routinely ask them a series of questions in a sequential order, in order to guide the officials to the decision they want (within the rules of course). E.g. “Can I drop here?’, ‘What about here?’, ‘OK, and and if this happens then what?’ Do I drop again?”

If they don’t get the answer they want right away, they will ask a tangential question to get the official to come to a decision that is satisfactory. “ Is this considered a loose impediment (immovable obstruction, etc...)?”

And even if you still consider this merely ‘confirmation’ of rules already known and not a version of ‘leading the witness’ in lawyer jargon, then I’ll grant you that, if you are insistent (though I disagree in at least some cases). 

However I’ll STILL insist that it’s a HUGE advantage to have bona fide experts all around to confirm, or suggest to you your allowed course of action and to supervise it’s execution with qualified, legitimate advice. 

Dont get me wrong. With the stakes so high, I understand why this happens. But it’s clearly a luxury not afforded to your average weekend player. Again, understandably so. 

Simply naive not to see that IMO. 

Edited by sofingaw

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I voted no. There are some whiny comments made at times, but they are grinding out a living. They make the same comments we do about courses that are tough for us. They are given perfect conditions (course-wise), for the most part, but so are baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis. Only NFL football can seem to have varying field conditions and Ice Hockey different ice conditions.

But in all the sports, golf included, they all play the same playing area. Grumbling usually only comes from the players that didn't play well or made mistakes. Same with rules. You're a professional. You should know the rules of your sport.

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I voted no. While I agree with some of the authors points, I don't think the player complaints are completely unwarranted either.

It's interesting that he used Stenson as an example.  I googled a bit for remarks from Stenson and found this article.  "A little bit over the line" is definitely not "whiny baby" talk. Now, the author of @iacas's post didn't directly quote Stenson but I do feel that it's worth pointing out Stenson's comments on the round since his poor play on 15 was used as an example.

I think players are under a lot of pressure and different people deal with that pressure differently.  I don't care if players complain about wind or talk to their ball or drop F-bombs, etc. I think that's part of being human. But they should be reasonable too and sometimes they're not (e.g., don't complain when your ball stays right when you hit it in a strong left-to-right wind.)  But it's unfair to them as people to judge them over isolated instances of expressed emotion.

I also think that the players can't win.  If they keep their emotions in check and don't react to anything, we (the general public) can accuse them of being boring robots.  If, instead, they react as the flawed human beings they are, we can call them childish names like "snowflake" and "whiny baby."

So while I agree that the players have grown too accustomed to perfect conditions, I don't think they're "whiny babies" when they're faced with hard conditions and express their frustration.

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13 hours ago, Shorty said:

I agree pretty much. I'm tired of players who:

1. Yell  "Come on wind!" when they hit it left or right of the green in  a whiny, amazed/frustrated voice, as if their shot was perfect. (Spieth is good at this.)

2. Point to the side of the hole they should have aimed at but missed and then stare at their caddy in stunned silence when they misread a putt as if the Gods are conspiring against them.

3. Yell out "mud ball!" when a long iron or fairway wood misses the green. (Bubba is awesome at doing this.)

4. Behave as if they've been robbed when they see a less than perfect lie in a bunker.

5. Shake their heads in disbelief and "laugh" when a poorly judged chip shot rolls back towards them.

6. Completely ignore polite applause from galleries who are being courteous and nice as they walk back to their caddy after getting anything worse than a birdie.

 

I disagree with almost all of this.  Jordan saying “c’mon wind” because it doesn’t move the ball where he thought it would doesn’t make him a whiny baby.  Its not like he goes on a 5 minute tangent about it.  He talks to his ball, how is that whining?  I also rarely see a player not at least acknowledge the gallery clapping for them after finishing a hole.  I mean almost everything you’re saying makes someone a whiny baby is something... probably 90% or more of golfers do.  Can’t remember the last time I had a fried egg in a bunker that put a smile of joy on my face

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14 hours ago, Shorty said:

I agree pretty much. I'm tired of players who:

1. Yell  "Come on wind!" when they hit it left or right of the green in  a whiny, amazed/frustrated voice, as if their shot was perfect. (Spieth is good at this.)

2. Point to the side of the hole they should have aimed at but missed and then stare at their caddy in stunned silence when they misread a putt as if the Gods are conspiring against them.

3. Yell out "mud ball!" when a long iron or fairway wood misses the green. (Bubba is awesome at doing this.)

4. Behave as if they've been robbed when they see a less than perfect lie in a bunker.

5. Shake their heads in disbelief and "laugh" when a poorly judged chip shot rolls back towards them.

6. Completely ignore polite applause from galleries who are being courteous and nice as they walk back to their caddy after getting anything worse than a birdie.

 

Wow, if that's what it takes to be considered "whiny and spoiled", I'd hate to see you react to real whiny and spoiled attitudes are.

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With the absolute nature of the phrasing, I have to vote no. While I think there are definitely occasions when a pro (some more than others) might be whiny and act like a bratty child, I certainly don't think you can say they all are or even most on a given day. 

Plus, how many of us don't sometimes get whiny when the golf gods have seemingly forsaken us? I'm not proud of it, but I have had a few golf tantrums on a course that would not have played well had their been a TV camera documenting my theatrics. 

Now, are they spoiled? The kind of money that can be made by merely making cuts and not even sniffing the leaderboard? The perks from tourneys? The endorsement deals?  Heck yes, they are spoiled! But many of them realize that and do a lot of good with that privilege, as well. Plus, most have worked hard to get where they are. It's pretty easy for any of us to sometimes forget just how good we actually have it. 

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Although there are some pros that tend to complain more than others I could not paint the entire tour as whiny and spoiled.  The Tour does specify what the conditions should be for most tournaments and of course they do accommodate the players' preferences in most cases (the USGA is a different story).  Golfers like Dustin Johnson or Keopka are good examples of solid golfers that accept their results and official rulings for a round.  Spieth can sound whiny but he tends to think out loud.  Saturday at the 2018 US Open was enough to test anyone's patience and even Phil had a mini-meltdown.  Let's remember these guys are playing for the big bucks in purses and endorsements and most of them are very careful with their criticisms.

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I wonder how many of the PGA Tour players actually thought the same opinions of those who voiced them. I also wonder if there are a small number of golfers who continually whine about a course. 

In the end, the golfers play the same course. The get the same bad bounces. If a hole ends up being unfair, then it is unfair to everyone. Take unfair, move on. 

I am going to withhold voting because I am not sure this is a good general consensus of where the golfer's mentality are at today on the PGA tour. 

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I voted no.  It isn't "whining" to answer a question or express an opinion.  Some people let off steam by complaining.  Watch any football game and note how many times the "whiny babies" complain to the officials.  I think this is only an issue if you decide to make it one. 

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