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Bucki1968

Distance up? The same?

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I recently read an article in Golf Digest (I think), that started the amateur golfer has not increased their yardage distance from the tee in the past 16 years ( I think again). I want to say tour distance has gone up about 2.5 yards the last couple years. I see the R and A is testing drivers this week. It sounds to me that the great distance debate really only affects the top 2/3 per cent of golfers. I find it interesting that the average golfer hits it shorter and handicaps have stayed the same. I guess technology has really only helped the better players. 

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12 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

I recently read an article in Golf Digest (I think), that started the amateur golfer has not increased their yardage distance from the tee in the past 16 years ( I think again). I want to say tour distance has gone up about 2.5 yards the last couple years. I see the R and A is testing drivers this week. It sounds to me that the great distance debate really only affects the top 2/3 per cent of golfers. I find it interesting that the average golfer hits it shorter and handicaps have stayed the same. I guess technology has really only helped the better players. 

I don't think we have much actual data on what "average golfers" do or don't do.

Not enough to compare them to a whopping "2.5 yards" for the pros, anyway.

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11 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

I recently read an article in Golf Digest (I think), that started the amateur golfer has not increased their yardage distance from the tee in the past 16 years ( I think again).

I believe this thread has covered what the Golf Digest has written,

 

13 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

I see the R and A is testing drivers this week. It sounds to me that the great distance debate really only affects the top 2/3 per cent of golfers. I find it interesting that the average golfer hits it shorter and handicaps have stayed the same. I guess technology has really only helped the better players. 

I don't mind the R&A and the USGA testing the pro's equipment more often.

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Hate to plug 'other' websites here, but an interesting and relevant read

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/are-average-golfers-gaining-distance-new-study-says-not-by-a-long-shot

But I guess the better equipment just goes hand in hand with better training methods, stronger, bigger players and so on. Read an article where a chap hit a 1960's 3iron of Christy O'Connor's and a RBZ one and the distance/dispersion was minute on sweet hits. Its the size of the sweet spot and forgiveness where the new tech really shone.

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Is there any data on the amount of golf lessons that amateurs are getting? Just curious. I’ve always chuckled about the golfers who will get new equipment or training aids (and spend lots of money) instead of taking some lessons to improve. 

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14 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

Is there any data on the amount of golf lessons that amateurs are getting?

Now those are some tough stats to get a hold of. This is as close as I could find..

http://www.proponent-group.com/sites/www.proponent-group.com/files/Golfer_Attitudes_About_Instruction_Report.ppt

Hope it opens!

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I feel I am hitting the ball at 34 further than I ever have.  Last time I was fitted for a driver (2012), didn't purchase that day because there wasn't any improvement over my current gamer, my swing speed was around 105, and distances were around ~ carry 250, total 265.  I went for a new fitting about a month ago, swing speed average is now 111.7, average carry 263 and my total average was 293.5.  All of these were done in front of a TrackMan.  I believe there is a little more gas in the tank with some better mechanics.  I've never been to a swing coach for lessons, but have watched many videos on this site (I lurked a long time before posting) and taken some of that advice to the range for drilling.  I definitely feel my swing is better today overall, but I also know it's still not ideal and I have things to work through.

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I am a 66 year old golfer and as expected I am shorter than I was 16 years ago off the tee.  However, the larger sweet spot on the 460cc drivers, hybrids, and some improvements with the golf balls have me still playing from the same tees (men's) but about 25 yards shorter with my drives.  This is a very difficult stat to measure with amateurs due to age and I believe analyzing the pro distances gives a clearer picture of distance gain.

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4 hours ago, Bucki1968 said:

Is there any data on the amount of golf lessons that amateurs are getting? Just curious. I’ve always chuckled about the golfers who will get new equipment or training aids (and spend lots of money) instead of taking some lessons to improve. 

Unfortunately some just assume ‘taking a lesson’ is the better option. This all depends on the instructor. Sadly there are still many, many lousy instructors out there turning out lessons day by day. I see it happening all the time at my facility. Not only are golf camps being done, but the adult lessons I see taking place are riddled with inaccurate information. Those golfers would fair better by online advice from a good instructor. It’s a conundrum because someone makes the plunge to pay for a lesson, maybe even really excited to have a ‘pro’ unlock their mysteries of why they suck, and they can only assume they’re getting accurate info since they are seeing a golf ‘pro.’ I’ve been on that end of it and it just sucks. 

Edited by Vinsk

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It's always been my belief that 90% of all the golfers in the world do not have a swing, or impact position to take full advantage of modern equipment technology. That percentage is even higher, strictly within the amateur ranks in my opinion. 

The idea that you can make more putts with this, or that putter is more sales hype than anything else. It's the same with "get 20 yards more" with this, or that club.  It's the same hype. 

Amateurs have the most room for improvement in distance, and accuracy as a group. However, to achieve that improvement requires a lot of work, and personal expense for proper swing lessons, and club fittings on the part of the amateur. I don't think alot of amateurs are inclined to follow that road to improvement. 

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21 minutes ago, Patch said:

It's always been my belief that 90% of all the golfers in the world do not have a swing, or impact position to take full advantage of modern equipment technology. That percentage is even higher, strictly within the amateur ranks in my opinion

That is true with any equipment.

Actually, lower spin, and higher launching drivers benefit amateurs. If I was fitting a person who struggled with launch angle and spin rate. I would try to get them in a higher lofted driver, with a low spin profile.

22 minutes ago, Patch said:

The idea that you can make more putts with this, or that putter is more sales hype than anything else. It's the same with "get 20 yards more" with this, or that club.  It's the same hype. 

A properly fitted putter can benefit a golfer greatly. Check out video's of Edel's putter fitting. The change in head design and alignment markings, can greatly influence aim. Clubhead weighting can greatly influence distance control.

 

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12 hours ago, Bucki1968 said:

Is there any data on the amount of golf lessons that amateurs are getting? Just curious. I’ve always chuckled about the golfers who will get new equipment or training aids (and spend lots of money) instead of taking some lessons to improve. 

Something like 15% of golfers have ever gotten a lesson.

6 hours ago, Patch said:

The idea that you can make more putts with this, or that putter is more sales hype than anything else. It's the same with "get 20 yards more" with this, or that club.  It's the same hype.

I vehemently disagree.

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15 hours ago, Patch said:

The idea that you can make more putts with this, or that putter is more sales hype than anything else. It's the same with "get 20 yards more" with this, or that club.  It's the same hype. 

I know from experience this is false.  I had an old R4 driver that I loved.  I got a new Nike Vapor Pro driver when they were on crazy sale because Nike was getting out of the clubs game.  I instantly gained ~15 yards of carry on my drive.

I've never gone and spent a ton getting fit for and buying the right putter.  But I've read enough descriptions of Edel fittings from good fitters that I'm pretty convinced that, if you have a reasonable and fairly consistent putting stroke, even if your results are below average, that you could also get significant gains from an excellently fit putter as well.

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22 hours ago, Patch said:

It's always been my belief that 90% of all the golfers in the world do not have a swing, or impact position to take full advantage of modern equipment technology.

That's a function of skill and has nothing to do with modern equipment technology. The best players have always been able to get more out of their equipment than the average golfer. That was true 100 years ago and that will still be true 100 years from now.

If anything, equipment technology disproportionately benefits the average golfer more than the pro due to rules limiting equipment performance. Because clubs are at the limit of what they can do, technology has been directed towards making them more forgiving and transferring more energy on off-center hits to preserve ball speed. This benefits the higher handicap golfer more because they miss the sweetspot both more often and by a larger margin than a better player.

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14 minutes ago, billchao said:

Because clubs are at the limit of what they can do, technology has been directed towards making them more forgiving and transferring more energy on off-center hits to preserve ball speed. This benefits the higher handicap golfer more because they miss the sweetspot both more often and by a larger margin than a better player.

100% agree, this write up in an Irish national newspaper is worth a read, very relevant to this subject.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/no-forgiveness-as-christys-clubs-make-return-to-action-35349398.html

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On 7/18/2018 at 12:27 PM, Vinsk said:

Unfortunately some just assume ‘taking a lesson’ is the better option. This all depends on the instructor. Sadly there are still many, many lousy instructors out there turning out lessons day by day. I see it happening all the time at my facility. Not only are golf camps being done, but the adult lessons I see taking place are riddled with inaccurate information. Those golfers would fair better by online advice from a good instructor. It’s a conundrum because someone makes the plunge to pay for a lesson, maybe even really excited to have a ‘pro’ unlock their mysteries of why they suck, and they can only assume they’re getting accurate info since they are seeing a golf ‘pro.’ I’ve been on that end of it and it just sucks. 

Yep! That's why I've been leery of taking lessons the whole time I've played golf, other than getting a few tips from my Uncle. There are a lot of self acclaimed "experts" out there, charlatans most of them!

They will try to shoehorn you into their "system", no matter your age, physical attributes, prior performance, or whatever! And if it doesn't work? It's all your fault! No thanks!

I'd rather try to figure it out on my own!

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According to the study, my average drives despite RA, etc, are the same distance as average drives of UK amateur golfers. As the USGA says, SOMETHING MUST BE DONE AND QUICK! 😡 Best, -Marv

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