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2018 Ryder Cup at Le Golf National - Paris, France


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1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

Not sure how you came to this conclusion? Le Golf National is an American Style Golf Course. It looks like someone transported it straight from Florida. 

Tbf it’s been a fairly common observation across Sky and BBC from both European and American pundits and ex players that this course is set up to favour Europe (tight fairways, punishing rough, relatively slow greens, and then a bit of wind and cool temps too). 

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Well played team Europe, and well done Bjorn who obviously knows his stuff better than most of us give him credit for. Great tournament 👍

There is a classic management mistake known as "hoping for A while rewarding for B." As you note, we hope that our players will perform well on one type of course, while we select them based on their

I think the posts about it being an exhibition and players not caring is sour grapes.  The players care (especially the younger guys)  they just lost.  No excuses about it they just need to play bette

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30 minutes ago, Moxley said:

I didn't say that they were.

I said that they are excellent ball strikers, and that would be true of the American team too. The difference is that , in addition to being great ball strikers, the Americans also have some very long hitters too. 

I have already said earlier in the thread that I believe the US team to be a stronger one, I'm talking in relative terms here. Relatively, length is your advantage, and if you can't use that quite as much, then the course closes the gap a little. 

 

You are back peddling. You implied the Europeans were better ball strikers and the Americans were simply longer hitters. If the Americans were equal ball strikers and longer hitters then where would the Europeans have an advantage? It's never an advantage to be a shorter hitter.

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US got more long hitters, but Euro got the longest. It's about who plays best golf at the end of the day. It's impossible to make calls about anything. Doesn't help to hit it far if you miss enough putts.

Rory - 319.8
Finau - 315.3
DJ - 314.7
Koepka - 313.0
JT - 311.9
Rahm - 309.5
Fleetwood - 306.9
Bryson - 305.5
Casey 304.4
Rose - 303.7

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Not sure about the afternoon pairings. I'd be curious to hear what Captain Furyk has to say. I have not ever been sold on hlm being the Ryder Cup captain. He never seemed like he was "firery" enough to be a leader. Maybe he is behind closed doors?

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1 minute ago, Hazsa said:

Tbf it’s been a fairly common observation across Sky and BBC from both European and American pundits and ex players that this course is set up to favour Europe (tight fairways, punishing rough, relatively slow greens, and then a bit of wind and cool temps too). 

Again, I don't buy it. Do you think every course in America is set up with 75 yard wide fairways? They are not. The lush long rough is more indicative of American golf, it's not heather or tall fescue. You want punishing rough? Have you ever happened to watch the U.S. Open.  As far as the wind goes, Europe does have more of it, but have you ever happened to catch any of the Texas TOUR stops in April and May? This course looks much more like an American golf course than a European golf Course. 

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2 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

Not sure about the afternoon pairings. I'd be curious to hear what Captain Furyk has to say. I have not ever been sold on hlm being the Ryder Cup captain. He never seemed like he was "firery" enough to be a leader. Maybe he is behind closed doors?

I don't think "fire" in Ryder Cup captain matters all that much. Personality wise, Furyk is not that much different than Davis Love. I think Furyk is liked and respected by the players. He is perfectly capable of captaining the U.S. team to a victory.

Then again, I'm not sold on some of his pairing decisions so far. I commented my skepticism of the Reed/Woods pairing above. And I agree that putting Mickelson's shaky game out there in foursomes was a real head scratcher. 

 

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I believe the captain's top task is to pick and adjust pairings based on how the play progresses. 

If I see Phil out there in the morning tomorrow, I will be disappointed in Furyk.

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6 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

Again, I don't buy it. Do you think every course in America is set up with 75 yard wide fairways? They are not. The lush long rough is more indicative of American golf, it's not heather or tall fescue. You want punishing rough? Have you ever happened to watch the U.S. Open.  As far as the wind goes, Europe does have more of it, but have you ever happened to catch any of the Texas TOUR stops in April and May? This course looks much more like an American golf course than a European golf Course. 

Probably not, but I don’t know to be frank. Yes I’ve watched the US Open. And no I’d probably put bog snorkelling above Texas TOUR golf on my list of things I’d like to watch in April and May.

Truth is I haven’t a clue if the course setup favours Europe, I’m just saying what I’ve heard from a lot of ‘experts’. I don’t watch enough golf or analyse the stats enough to come up with my own informed decision. 

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1 minute ago, phillyk said:

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Ugh. Is Furyk like one of those NFL coaches that scripts the first 15 plays and then refuses to deviate? 3 lineups in and there is not a single player on the US team that has played with more than one partner. That has to be a first in Ryder Cup history. 

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16 minutes ago, Big C said:

Ugh. Is Furyk like one of those NFL coaches that scripts the first 15 plays and then refuses to deviate? 3 lineups in and there is not a single player on the US team that has played with more than one partner. That has to be a first in Ryder Cup history. 

In his defense the Fourball looked pretty good today. Now if we see the same Foursomes lineup tomorrow, someone might need to ask a few questions.

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16 minutes ago, Big C said:

Ugh. Is Furyk like one of those NFL coaches that scripts the first 15 plays and then refuses to deviate? 3 lineups in and there is not a single player on the US team that has played with more than one partner. That has to be a first in Ryder Cup history. 

To be fair the US went 3-1 with those pairings Friday. Not unreasonable to put those same pairings out again. Now if they use the same pairings tomorrow afternoon then there’s a problem. 

1 minute ago, NM Golf said:

In his defense the Fourball looked pretty good today. Now if we see the same Foursomes lineup tomorrow, someone might need to ask a few questions.

Jinx

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1 hour ago, colin007 said:

Of a more serious take, I don't believe that Tiger really cares about the Ryder Cup that much. I don't have any proof, it's just a hunch, but TO ME it seems like he could take it or leave it. Again, jmho.

I believe it was reported that Tiger called Furyk. Not the other way around.

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1 hour ago, Bucki1968 said:

Not sure about the afternoon pairings. I'd be curious to hear what Captain Furyk has to say. I have not ever been sold on hlm being the Ryder Cup captain. He never seemed like he was "firery" enough to be a leader. Maybe he is behind closed doors?

Furyk is plenty fiery on the golf course.

1 hour ago, Big C said:

Ugh. Is Furyk like one of those NFL coaches that scripts the first 15 plays and then refuses to deviate?

3-1

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1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

 

You are back peddling. You implied the Europeans were better ball strikers and the Americans were simply longer hitters. If the Americans were equal ball strikers and longer hitters then where would the Europeans have an advantage? It's never an advantage to be a shorter hitter.

 

I'm not, both yourself & @iacas have misunderstood my post (my wording may be responsible for that, I will concede). 

On the second part of how it could be an advantage, I'm surprised I have to answer this, but OK. Imagine that you, as a 0 index player, are playing a friend of yours who plays off 5, for best gross score. You and your friend are identical in every department , except that you hit the ball further ,and that explains all the 5 shots difference in your ability. 

If you play an average course, where you mostly hit your driver 20 past him, and take a 9i in where he needs 6i, you will score ~5 better per round, and, allowing for variation, you'll win probably 80-90% of the time. 

Now imagine you play a shorter track, where around half the holes are either par 3's, progressively narrow holes, or holes that include forced layups. You have 'full' advantage on 9 holes (lets say 2.5 shots), and still an advantage on the other 9 (since you can take less club), but the advantage is reduced since you can't go 20 yards past, so let's say your advantage on those holes is only 1 shot. On this course you only expect to shoot 3.5 better, and thus the gap between your expected scores is lower. Yes, your're still favourite , but not as strong as a favourite. 

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52 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

In his defense the Fourball looked pretty good today. Now if we see the same Foursomes lineup tomorrow, someone might need to ask a few questions.

Honestly, in thinking about it more, I think Furyk has botched this thing all the way around. It was clear he wanted to get everyone involved on day one, but to put Bubba and Phil out there in foursomes as opposed to fourball is borderline indefensible. 

Now with the Saturday fourball pairings announced, it seems like a certainty that both of those guys will be sitting out the entire day tomorrow, and will limp into Sunday singles with one poor showing under their belts. 

The other 10 guys are certainly talented enough to engineer a comeback, but I don't think you can say that Furyk put his team in the best possible position to win.

1 minute ago, iacas said:

3-1

Fine. My objection is primarily with the Reed/Woods pairing. Hopefully I'm proven wrong tomorrow.

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2 hours ago, iacas said:

Length is always an advantage. DJ can hit 3W with others must hit driver. And he’ll still have a shorter club in.

Of course it's always an advantage - but on some courses it's more of an advantage than on others. 

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