2018 Ryder Cup at Le Golf National - Paris, France

[Pretzel]

30 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

What strategy could have been employed to stop the butt whooping the US got? 

None of them. There were too many European players who were playing well and too many US players who simply had a bad week. I doubt any rearranging of pairings this weekend would've changed the outcome, unless playing with different partners and opponents suddenly caused the US to play much better than they did.

[howellhandmade]

38 minutes ago, JSGolf said:

If true do you blame Spieth? Reed was throwing major shade at Jordan about Ryder Cup. Reed rubs a lot of players and fans the wrong way. I wouldn't want to play with someone who made sly remarks like Reed did. Reed sucked anyways so pairing him with Jordan would've meant another point lost. 

Jim is an awful captain and he didn't inspire his team to win for them or him. 

Agreed. Both the "I guess my name has to be Jordan Spieth" and the "my back still hurts from the Ryder Cup" comments were derogatory and unprofessional. Granted, the first was caught on a fan's cell phone, but the second was to the press. If Spieth had made a similarly disparaging public remark about Reed, not only would the team have been over, Reed would not have taken one for the team and been quiet about it. In my opinion.

 

 

 

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Hazsa said:

Oh ok. Furyk thoughtbthe course was set up in our favour. I guess we’ll never know.

That’s not at all what I said.

2 hours ago, paddywex said:

A lot of USA is all about who the Captain is.. I just love to know..what Captain would the USA go out and give everything for..The King himself would have been the only one in my eyes Arnold Palmer..today Captain mmmm...

They don’t play for their captain. They play for themselves and the team.

1 hour ago, cnl390 said:

College coaches study their opponents and know which of their players match up best. Ryder cup captains are great players, but are they great strategists? 

It’s a blind draw.

And most college coaches don’t study matchups at all. What are you talking about? Most college events are stroke play.

[DeadMan]

Oh man, Reed going in hard on Spieth here: 

Spieth and Thomas have known each other since childhood and are great friends, but Reed didn’t see why that should have been a factor in splitting up two winning pairings (Spieth/Reed and Thomas/Fowler). Reed described the decision-making process as “a buddy system” that ignores the input of all but a few select players.

“The issue’s obviously with Jordan not wanting to play with me,” Reed said, adding, “I don’t have any issue with Jordan. When it comes right down to it, I don’t care if I like the person I’m paired with or if the person likes me as long as it works and it sets up the team for success. He and I know how to make each other better. We know how to get the job done.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/sports/golf/ryder-cup-europe-united-states-egos.html

[HJJ003]

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

None of them. There were too many European players who were playing well and too many US players who simply had a bad week. I doubt any rearranging of pairings this weekend would've changed the outcome, unless playing with different partners and opponents suddenly caused the US to play much better than they did.

Exactly. 

[howellhandmade]

7 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Oh man, Reed going in hard on Spieth here: 

 

 

Very well for you, Patrick, but what about the other guy? If you don't bathe for a month maybe you wouldn't mind if someone else stank, but that doesn't compel them to return the favor.

[gjunkie57]

The European players outplayed the US. Simple. I don't think anything would have stopped Molinari (major winner) and Fleetwood (whose been peaking). Four points right there.

[JSGolf]

56 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Oh man, Reed going in hard on Spieth here: 

 

 

Oh were your feelings hurt Patrick?😂 That's what happens when you continue to be a douchebag not only to other players but to fans of the sport....

[MacDutch]

2 hours ago, DeadMan said:

Oh man, Reed going in hard on Spieth here: 

 

 

I don’t see the problem. Reed said Spieth was his first choise because there is chemistry when playing together. His second choise was Tiger. We all have seen how that chemistry worked out.

And about the course being set up to suit the European: keep on ignoring that and you will loose again next time in Europe. There is a reason why allmost all US players played below their normal form. Not because they don’t care.

[Mozgolf]

Some random thoughts from a neutral observer. I kinda thought the Captains picks were to even the team out and pick guys in form. Finau actually turned out a reasonable pick. 

The course was clearly not suited to errant drivers, the automatic choices already had Bubba, Brooks, even Dustin; picking Phil, Tiger etc only compounded the problem.

Also playing those wild off the tee in alternate shots seems illogical. It makes it tough for their partner. Particularly if you pair them with a slighter finesse type player that's not used to gouging out of the rough.

At least in four-ball (best ball) they can contribute on sporadically when they stay in play and the other guy at least has a chance to cover / contest the hole when they go awry.

I think make making more effort to play the course ala JT would make a difference. After all they had two years and only had to do it every 4 years.

With the power of hindsight the likes of Kyle Stanley was perhaps a better fit to round the team out.

Tongue in check, watching yet endless hacking out of rough I was thinking they would have been better off gaming their vice- captains (excluding DD).

And final random thought, at least consider changing the tour schedule so there is another week between the end of FedEx and the RC?

Edited October 1, 2018 by Mozgolf

[RussUK]

6 hours ago, laconic517 said:

I think the posts about it being an exhibition and players not caring is sour grapes.  The players care (especially the younger guys)  they just lost. 

 

I agree, the players care a lot about the Ryder Cup. You can see the passion with every point or crucial putt. Its important to the players because its different to normal golf, as its a team event if you play rubbish it's not just yourself you let down.

I thought it was one of the best Ryder Cups of recent times. Obviously from a European point of view it was a win with great performances with MoliWood, Poulter and Garcia stading out, but also from Finau who i thought played really good in the singles.

Bjiorn got his team right especially with the Captains picks. On paper the US team was, i think, stronger but they just didnt seem to gel as a team to the extent europe did.

USA gave it their all, which is all anyone can ask.

[Zeph]

Quote

For this year’s edition, Bjorn and Co. exploited a considerable home-course advantage. The longtime host of the French Open, Le Golf National was a course with which every European player was intimately familiar. Sure, the game’s best usually only have three days to learn a major venue, but one U.S. scouting trip here in July wasn’t going to supersede years of institutional knowledge.

Especially when it’s an inspired choice like Le Golf National, a claustrophobic, hazard-filled stadium course that immediately evokes TPC Sawgrass but with more lush, penal, hack-out rough. Just as Hazeltine’s generous landing areas accommodated the Americans’ bomb-and-gouge style in 2016, this was a track that perfectly highlighted the Europeans’ strength: Six of their players ranked inside the top 82 in driving accuracy on the PGA Tour, while a whopping eight Americans landed in the bottom 82. Bjorn neutralized the Americans’ greatest asset – their mesmerizing power – and forced layups into the same parts of the fairway, but in the swirling crosswinds the Americans still managed to find trouble.

“You have to do what you have to do to give yourself a slight advantage,” McIlroy said

https://www.golfchannel.com/article/ryan-lavner/why-europe-again-its-relentless-its-pursuit-excellence/

[ZappyAd]

I think the captain's picks were a bit of an issue for the U.S. team.  I heard something on UK radio (not sure if I remember the figures totally accurately) that said the European wildcards scored 9.5 points and the US scored 2.5 (all Finau?).  That is a decision that sits with the captain and his leadership team so it is something that Furyk could have done to make a difference. 

You could argue that Tiger played his way in but tiredness was always going to be a factor - didn't he play 19 times this season which is as close to the max he played in a season at his best?  Then add the fact that he won (and presumably celebrated) and it must have taken its toll.  I guess he really really really wanted to play and it is understandable that he couldn't see his own potential fatigue so when asked I suppose he said yes I am definitely up to it.  That is when the captain makes the call.

Phil is a harder call to understand for me - he played well in Mexico at the start of the season but some of the rest of his performances have been really poor.  He also hasn't looked in great shape imho (although that is never really relevant for him). 

[MonkeyGolfer99]

Well done Europe!   Molinari and Fleetwood the stand out pair for me.

I'll have to say that the Captain's picks for the Europe team were more than justified - I was skeptical and wanted more balance between exp. and form but I guess that's why I'm not picking RC teams :)  Friday's foursomes seemed to rock the US and they never quite recovered.  Europe were the better team over the three days.  No question.

We all know how golf is though . . . on other days the US edge in front, Europe buckle and Furyk is hailed as a genius for sticking with Phil and Tiger as they show their class while Bjorn's tactics and picks are questioned . . .  That said, some of Furyk's picks seemed odd but it's easy to say so with hindsight.  Tiger looked tired - which was a shame for the comp.  It surprised me how little known the course was to the US team though.  Surely a bit more prep was in order?

 

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by MonkeyGolfer99

[Moxley]

4 hours ago, MacDutch said:

And about the course being set up to suit the European: keep on ignoring that and you will loose again next time in Europe. There is a reason why allmost all US players played below their normal form. Not because they don’t care.

 

Indeed, although I think the Ryder cup task force will have more sense than to ignore it, as 17.5-10.5 is too big to ignore. The issue is, what  can be done about it? If the European team is heavy on ballstrikers, and the US team on bombers, each side will pick courses and set them up to favour their own players and knowledge of the course will only go so far. One idea would be to give more captains picks for away tournaments, but it'll still only make a minimal difference. 

I think home advantage will continue to play a big role both sides, which is fine by me.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, ZappyAd said:

I think the captain's picks were a bit of an issue for the U.S. team.  I heard something on UK radio (not sure if I remember the figures totally accurately) that said the European wildcards scored 9.5 points and the US scored 2.5 (all Finau?).  That is a decision that sits with the captain and his leadership team so it is something that Furyk could have done to make a difference. 

You could argue that Tiger played his way in but tiredness was always going to be a factor - didn't he play 19 times this season which is as close to the max he played in a season at his best?  Then add the fact that he won (and presumably celebrated) and it must have taken its toll.  I guess he really really really wanted to play and it is understandable that he couldn't see his own potential fatigue so when asked I suppose he said yes I am definitely up to it.  That is when the captain makes the call.

Phil is a harder call to understand for me - he played well in Mexico at the start of the season but some of the rest of his performances have been really poor.  He also hasn't looked in great shape imho (although that is never really relevant for him). 

Total revisionist history type stuff here, or after-the-fact type stuff.

Yes, of course you can question the picks after you know the results.

The general consensus at the time was that Furyk's captains picks were far and above the Euro picks. Stenson was injured, Poulter wasn't playing great, Sergio was playing quite poorly and hadn't made a cut in a major all year, and Casey won in March or something, but hadn't done much since? Finau and DeChambeau were easy choices, and DeChambeau won two events about a month ago. Tiger just won an event and was playing great golf all summer long. Phil was #10 in the points list and #25 OWGR.

Turns out… everyone in golf these days is pretty good, and switches can be flipped on a weekly or even daily basis, partly because that gap is so small.

Captains look good or bad based entirely on how their players play, and the Euros played significantly better. The end.

[Silent]

Interesting discussion. In my opinion, if Garcia and Stenson lost their matches, Bjorn would be called a bad captain for making ridiculous picks (players not in form, back from injury etc.). But surprise surprise, Garcia played very well and honestly much better than expected looking at how he played this entire season. Does that make Bjorn a great captain, or does it make him a (slightly) lucky one?

[NCGolfer]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

Turns out… everyone in golf these days is pretty good, and switches can be flipped on a weekly or even daily basis, partly because that gap is so small.

Truth.  It seems that the switch is flipped much faster around the Ryder Cup.

8 hours ago, DeadMan said:

Oh man, Reed going in hard on Spieth here: 

I try to like Reed...I really do.  That's just not good.