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2018 Ryder Cup at Le Golf National - Paris, France

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38 minutes ago, skydog said:

Context is key- and what you left out. The ‘I don’t disagree’ comment was to the previous comment saying he was a bad pick. 

And I shouldn’t have gone so far to say the pick itself was indefensible. Putting him out in foursomes was however, and will go down in RC history as one of the worst pairings of all time. Phil and BDC are 6th and 7th on tour in birdie percentage- they should have played together in fourball if anything. Playing them in foursomes made zero sense.

But yes, captains get too much praise when they win and too much blame when they lose. We all know that. 

I beg to disagree. A big part of captaining is getting to know your players and working out which pairings will generate positive energy. If you listened to the interviews with the European players afterwards, the common opinion was that Thomas Björns role was „incredible“. Look at the huddles at the end of every round, the fact that his captain‘s picks scored the highest number of points ever (9.5 points), the relationship which evolved between Tommy Fleetwood and Francesco Molinari and the tears shed on more than one occasion by Paul Casey to appreciate the role Björn played as captain. Guys like Tommy Fleetwood and Tyrell Hatton are not yet fully mature as professional golfers and need guidance. They got it. 

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Jim Furyk was a “milk toast” captain. Nick Saben listens to his assistant coaches but makes the ultimate decision. Too many buddies playing together and then other pairings that are just head scratchers. Nobody even looked like they wanted to be there. Captains pick went 2-10-1. Phil should have stayed home. Bubba Watson? Spieth? Fowler?Sergio was crap all year but he showed up. I guess the Team Europe is just tougher? The Ryder cup means more to them?

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21 minutes ago, graham57 said:

If you listened to the interviews with the European players afterwards, the common opinion was that Thomas Björns role was „incredible“. 

Oh pipe down. They clearly don’t have a clue what they’re on about.

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1 hour ago, GolfLug said:

I agree with those who think tight fairways and heavy rough was a huge factor. The serpentine holes took the teeth outta longer tee ballers. I think Rory and Rose from their side weren't as effective either for that reason. 

I think this made a lot of short hitters who place balls much more effective. Euro team was full of them. For eg Molinari.

 

It really did make a sizeable difference, and more even that I'd expected it too. Watching Poulter's drive roll past DJ's on the 18th summed this up for me. A truly great and fascinating course I thought.

I'll definitely tune into more of the French open next year. 

 

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13 minutes ago, graham57 said:

Well argued.

To clarify, I agree wholeheartedly with your original post.

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

It really did make a sizeable difference, and more even that I'd expected it too. Watching Poulter's drive roll past DJ's on the 18th summed this up for me. A truly great and fascinating course I thought.

I'll definitely tune into more of the French open next year. 

 

A friend and I are now determined to give it a go. We played the 2010 Celtic Manor course recently but this looks like even more fun. Surely they’ll hike the prices after this weekend though.

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50 minutes ago, Zeph said:

They are all world class and can play any course, but I believe it is an advantage to play courses similar to what they played on. 

Half the Euros...hell most of them live here in the US. Rose and Stenson are neighbors in Florida. These guys play together all the time in US courses of all types. It’s not the old days when the Euros were only here for tournaments. Most of the Euro guys spend most of their time playing here. Sorry your point really isn’t valid here.

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15 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Half the Euros...hell most of them live here in the US. Rose and Stenson are neighbors in Florida. These guys play together all the time in US courses of all types. It’s not the old days when the Euros were only here for tournaments. Most of the Euro guys spend most of their time playing here. Sorry your point really isn’t valid here.

I’d like to think that they’d be able to move to Florida without forgetting everything they learned while growing up here and developing in the European Tour.

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2 minutes ago, Hazsa said:

I’d like to think that they’d be able to move to Florida without forgetting everything they learned while growing up here and developing in the European Tour.

That would matter if the course was European in style. It was not.

It was a U.S. Open style course with slower greens than usual. That’s all.

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3 hours ago, Hardspoon said:

Well...

Exactly.  They prioritized their individual success over what is basically just an exhibition...which I'd say is probably a pretty good choice.

Personally, I'm bummed it was such a blowout.  I like European events since they're on early in the morning, so I would have enjoyed watching if it was actually close.

It's their right to do so (although the French Open is now part of the Rolex series and has a great purse) but with that choice comes responsibility for the consequences.

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Oh come on. You’re acting like the US guys were standing around in awe not knowing how to play a course with thick rough and narrow fairways. These are the best golfers in the planet. They simply played shitty and that’s just golf. Let’s not pretend these pros can’t handle the golf course. They didn’t ..but that’s not the same as can’t.

Perhaps, but the way to prove that handle it is to handle it. They didn't, which begs the question... On Sky TV here in the UK Butch Harmon was scathing in that regard.

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3 minutes ago, weekend hacker1 said:

It's their right to do so (although the French Open is now part of the Rolex series and has a great purse) but with that choice comes responsibility for the consequences.

What consequences?  They lost an exhibition.  Every single player on either team would trade a Ryder Cup win for an individual tournament win in pretty much any tournament with a decent field.

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1 minute ago, Hardspoon said:

What consequences?  They lost an exhibition.  Every single player on either team would trade a Ryder Cup win for an individual tournament win in pretty much any tournament with a decent field.

It's just a meaningless exhibition now? You wouldn't say that if you won. It's not a major but it is still the best event in golf. 

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38 minutes ago, iacas said:

That would matter if the course was European in style. It was not.

It was a U.S. Open style course with slower greens than usual. That’s all.

Oh ok. Furyk thoughtbthe course was set up in our favour. I guess we’ll never know.

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3 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

What consequences?  They lost an exhibition.  Every single player on either team would trade a Ryder Cup win for an individual tournament win in pretty much any tournament with a decent field.

Individual tournament? I don’t think so. Major? Yes.

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3 minutes ago, weekend hacker1 said:

It's just a meaningless exhibition now? You wouldn't say that if you won. It's not a major but it is still the best event in golf. 

I didn't say "meaningless"...but my point stands.  Every player on both teams would lose the Ryder Cup in exchange for a win in one of 20 tournaments a year (maybe not the silly ones like the Hero Challenge or whatever, but certainly not just majors).

1 minute ago, ChrisP said:

Individual tournament? I don’t think so. Major? Yes.

OK, it's debatable...but I think they'd trade it for a win in the Wyndham or the Memorial or at least a dozen others.

Edited by Hardspoon

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11 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

What consequences?  They lost an exhibition.  Every single player on either team would trade a Ryder Cup win for an individual tournament win in pretty much any tournament with a decent field.

Maybe Tiger would with his million reasons comments in the past, but he seems to be a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. He couldn't have looked less interested on Friday and Saturday if he tried.

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4 minutes ago, weekend hacker1 said:

Maybe Tiger would with his million reasons comments

No "maybe" about it, and it's not just Tiger.  If you asked Ian Poulter whether he'd rather win the Ryder Cup or, say, the Memorial, I guarantee you he'd pick the individual tournament.

7 minutes ago, weekend hacker1 said:

Tiger couldn't have looked less interested on Friday and Saturday if he tried.

Because...it's a f--king exhibition.  Heck, look at even the Olympics, which come with a gold medal...professional golfers cared so little they were making up excuses not to go.  The Ryder Cup matters a LOT more to mediocre players like Poulter than to guys like Tiger who are able to compete with the best.

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27 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

OK, it's debatable...but I think they'd trade it for a win in the Wyndham or the Memorial or at least a dozen others.

Depends on the player. I feel like DJ, Koepka and maybe a couple of the Yanks would take any tourney over a RC, but I feel like there’s others, especially Euros, who are so passionate for the RC that only a major would be bigger for them. Hence why I feel like the Euros outperform us a lot. I think this means more for them. 

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