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2018 Ryder Cup at Le Golf National - Paris, France

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22 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

^^^^ Absolutely. 

I do not understand the importance and scramble to find some underlying reason after a loss. The European players were simply better.

Congrats to their fans here on the site. 

Thank you ,and congrats to the Americans for being  as sporting as usual in defeat . The course  in Paris really was set up to benefit European players and the only way to play good there is to keep the ball on the fairway .The Europeans have played this course many times .The only American who bothered to come over and play here in the French open was Justin Thomas who ended up with 4 points . Maybe a few more should have made the trip ?

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I think this post needs to be made every few pages.. The European players answer to RC like some higher calling and the US players can't summon anymore than passion than a weekend moonlight is just horseshit from folks who really do not understand how much course set up and many years worth of local knowledge played into the outcome. To them the only measure of passion is gesticulating fist pumps or scowl faced heart stabbing. Horse shit. 

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11 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I think this post needs to be made every few pages.. The European players answer to RC like some higher calling and the US players can't summon anymore than passion than a weekend moonlight is just horseshit from folks who really do not understand how much course set up and many years worth of local knowledge played into the outcome. To them the only measure of passion is gesticulating fist pumps or scowl faced heart stabbing. Horse shit. 

Thank you for stating my thoughts as well

  • on the one hand - the win is noted that local knowledge, preparation, hitting fairways and greens, and execution results in a win (I agree)
  • then somehow, some undefined 'passion' is put forth as the reason for the win - like 'really wanting it' is the recipe for a win (I find this to be weak rationalization)

better golfing wins,

as for 'passion' - these are all HIGHLY motivated professionals that hate to lose, love to win, and all of them absolutely adore the Ryder Cup.  There's plenty of passion.  The fact that we see it more with the teams that have the initial "momentum" is a result, not a cause.

reminds me of execs that ask for "a sense of urgency" in projects.......yeah, I'll still work hard, but I'll act scared and rushed the entire time and that will make things go faster.

Edited by rehmwa

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As a golf fan i really enjoyed watching the Rayder Cup. 
I´m a fan of spieth and bubba (an obviously tiger) but I cheered for Europe (always pushing for the weakest).

Europe player´s just played better and won with a good margin, playing at home with a better course kgnoledge and the crouds in their favor just makes it a little easier. No one´s fault. Some day´s you win, some days you loose.
 
Congratulations on team Europe for the win and team USA for their good behavior on their defeat.  

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1 hour ago, rehmwa said:

reminds me of execs that ask for "a sense of urgency" in projects.......yeah, I'll still work hard, but I'll act scared and rushed the entire time and that will make things go faster.

lol! please don't give away secrets on a public forum. Have spent years trying to perfect it. ha ha  

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I’m worried this Reed-Spieth drama is going to disrupt what could have been a great pairing for years to come and infect the team room in future years. Hopefully things will settle down with time. 

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4 hours ago, rehmwa said:

 

Saw some good sportsmanship and friendliness - I know some of you hate that, but I think that's what it's all about.

 

The Garcia/Fowler hug was touching!    Lot of time for Fowler after that now.  

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16 hours ago, jamo said:

The more I read about why people think the U.S. sucks in the Ryder Cup the more I think there's nothing special about it. Maybe I wasn't reading about it in 2016 or 2008 but I don't ever remember the Europeans complaining about not getting their favorite pairings or anything like that. It's not like Tommy Fleetwood and Molinari were some battle-hardened partnership going into this week. They just showed up and played better. Sometimes things like that happen and there isn't some deeper meaning to be mined.

I don't believe that the European team is looser or anything, or their games set up better for fourballs vs. foursomes. They're all friends who know each other for the most part. Plenty of the Americans were hot going into the week. I don't think the outcome would have been much different with a changed captain's pick here or two. 

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced it's just that the Americans and Europeans are very similar in talent, and have been so for a while, and sometimes weird things happen in small samples. 

@jamo, I agree with you but with one large caveat - Tiger Woods. 

At this point, it has gotten past the point where you can brush it off as the type of oddity that occurs in small sample sizes. To me, there is enough evidence to say that there is something about Tiger Woods that leads the guys he is partnered with to play worse than they should. Call it "reverse chemistry" or something, but it can't be overlooked as random chance anymore. 

I'm not going to speculate on the reasons why, but I will say this. As I looked back on my (limited) team match play experience, I remember getting partnered with one guy in particular in my men's club team matches. Unlike most of the guys on our team who pretty loose and fun regardless of how we were playing, this guy was serious. Not rude, not mean - just deadly serious. And if things weren't going well for us, if we went down in the match early, or if someone three putted to lose a hole, you could almost cut the tension with a knife. 

I didn't enjoy playing with this guy, nor did I ever play particularly well when we were partners. When the pairings came out and I saw that I was partnered with someone else, I was relieved. Not surprisingly, my scores were better in matches when we were not partners. I don't think it was a coincidence.

 

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Interesting thought I'm stealing from someone else (I also haven't fact checked this). Is the fatigue from the FedEx Cup Playoffs causing some of the US's issues? Look at the breakdown of US players vs. Euro players playing in the Tour Championship:

2008: U.S. 9 - Europe 1 (U.S. wins 16.5-11.5)
2010: U.S. 9 - Europe 1 (Europe wins 14.5-13.5)
2012: U.S. 10 - Europe 5 (Europe wins 14.5-13.5)
2014: U.S. 10 - Europe 4 (Europe wins 16.5-13.5)
2016: U.S. 9 - Europe 1 (U.S. wins 17-11)
2018: U.S. 11 - Europe 6 (Europe wins 17.5-10.5)

Note that in 2008, the Ryder Cup was held 2 weeks after the BMW and 1 week before the Tour Championship.

US players are generally playing 4 events in 5 weeks before the Ryder Cup. They might just be drained.

Good theory as any. There's probably something minor to team chemistry/pairings and course set up, but this feels like a better explanation to me. You don't see golfers playing 4 out of 5 weeks leading up to a major, for example. That's basically what they've been doing for Ryder Cups. Add in a transatlantic flight to that, too, for away matches.

Fortunately, this probably resolves itself with the schedule changes coming.

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I am not sure I buy the local knowledge thing. It does not take much local knowledge to look at the course and see that the fairways are narrow and edged by either water or thick rough. It does not take local knowledge to know that on such a course accuracy is required.  Local knowledge will not help you hit the fairway.

Some American players seemed incapable of keeping the ball on the short stuff. That is not down to local knowledge. It is due to playing on tour courses which reward length rather than accuracy. 

The talk is that the return match will be played on a course extended to over 8000 yards with virtually no rough. That might play to the strengths of the Americans but as golfer as a Scot I am not sure that I would recognise such a place as a golf course.  

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26 minutes ago, schottberg said:

Local knowledge will not help you hit the fairway.

It’s that simple.

27 minutes ago, schottberg said:

I am not sure I buy the local knowledge thing. It does not take much local knowledge to look at the course and see that the fairways are narrow and edged by either water or thick rough. It does not take local knowledge to know that on such a course accuracy is required.  Local knowledge will not help you hit the fairway.

Some American players seemed incapable of keeping the ball on the short stuff. That is not down to local knowledge. It is due to playing on tour courses which reward length rather than accuracy. 

The talk is that the return match will be played on a course extended to over 8000 yards with virtually no rough. That might play to the strengths of the Americans but as golfer as a Scot I am not sure that I would recognise such a place as a golf course.  

If anything it should’ve been an advantage for the long hitters as they could play a shorter club to increase their accuracy yet hit the same or still even more distance than their competitor. Being able to hit a fairway is not a Euro thing. It’s a good golfers thing. And in this Ryder Cup the Euros did it much better. Both Euros and Americans play courses from Oakmont to Chamberlains Bay. 

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9 hours ago, gogolfing said:

Reed criticizing his captain for sitting him....no mention by him of the fact that in Saturday's 4 ball match with Tiger that Tiger carried him and that he would not have broken 80 in stroke play that round, or that the Speith-Thomas pairing was the team's best. Reed seems to have no ability to for self-assessment or to be a good teammate. 

Yeah its when Reed acts like this that makes me not like him even more.I figured Speith was one of the few that got along with him but after he spouts off like that about him I doubt he will care for him now.

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9 hours ago, Zeph said:

Molinari might rank the RC higher than his major, but I don't know if asking him just after winning the RC is the best time. He might be compelled to answer like he did just because of the circumstances. Winning a major is huge, he was even the first Italian to ever win one. There might be players out there that would put a major over the RC, but Tiger? No way. He would take a major over the RC any day of the week.

It's of course difficult to measure two events up against eachother. A major and a RC/PC are two different beasts.

Is that's why Tiger never does well in the team format of the RC ... Tiger is all about Tigers solo game playing for your country is just a side interest? If so leave him home and take guys that are 100% wanting to play for their country..

I agree the next Ryder cap in USA will be set-up like a Pro-am ....Bomb away

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On 10/1/2018 at 1:33 PM, laconic517 said:

I think the posts about it being an exhibition and players not caring is sour grapes.  The players care (especially the younger guys)  they just lost.  No excuses about it they just need to play better.  I really wish there was a better score tracker out there to see how well these guys were playing relative to par.  I always have a hard time telling if its one team playing well and winning vs another team playing poorly and giving it away.  I think rydercup.com had something but it was giving players pars in team matches even if they were out of the hole which i dont agree with.  One had Reed at -3 for 2 rounds which seems odd with all the water balls.

 

If a pair shoots 63 best ball and loses to a 62 or 61 you gotta just credit the other team.  Same for singles.

 

Euros just played better.  Maybe the americans could have played more strategic golf but other than that i dont see how Furyk can be criticized.  

 

Justin Thomas on his first Ryder Cup: "It was nerves, experience, atmosphere, unlike anything I've ever come close to experiencing in my career, in my life, and two years definitely can't come quick enough, that's for sure."

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 I kinda agree with Michael Breed today talking about the difficulty when you pair two 'Alpha' types together. I think players have historically played bad with Tiger because despite then being Alpha players (Reed, Mickelson) the bottom line is Tiger is the GOAT. So be alpha all you want but it's kinda difficult to do when you're paired with Tiger. However, players who are alpha that have the ability to take the beta role (Spieth) would fair better. Now this is only true if you've got a player who can do that and doesn't get caught up in the nerves of being with Tiger. Someone I think could play with Tiger and do well would be Pat Perez. He's an alpha personality but also can just do his thing and he respects how good Tiger is and would be enthusiastic about kicking someones tail with him on his team. Just some rambling I thought I'd throw out there.

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One item that is interesting and is not being discussed is..  Justin Thomas was going to take Patrick Reed’s ‘captain America’ title this weekend.  Everyone on the team likes him, and he’s a much better golfer than Patrick Reed is.  And, he’s a proven good team golfer. 

This is probably what pisses Patrick reed off.  Spieth and JT were 3-1.  JT beats Rory.  Everyone likes JT.  And Reed fades into oblivion.  Now, Reed has to be top 8 or he doesn’t make the team.  After his and is cooky wife’s comments this week, I doubt he’s a captains pick even if he’s #9.  He’s done. 

Also, no one noticed that all his their comments about how he got hosed by not being paired with Spieth are derivatively a direct shot at Tiger.  Don’t f*** with the goat, lest you never play in the Ryder again. 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, rehmwa said:

Thank you for stating my thoughts as well

  • on the one hand - the win is noted that local knowledge, preparation, hitting fairways and greens, and execution results in a win (I agree)
  • then somehow, some undefined 'passion' is put forth as the reason for the win - like 'really wanting it' is the recipe for a win (I find this to be weak rationalization)

 

I dont agree with this as such. If a team "wants" it more than the other team, i.e. they are more motivated, more energised etc. then that is going to have an effect.

Think football (soccer), the amount of times a team has a player sent off and its 11 v 10, the full team has the advantage, however its often the case that the 10 men play harder, they have to but they also have to want to win more than the other team. That extra motivation they get by being at a disadvantage or the underdog can go a long way to helpeing them win. Sure, its a lame saying when you here a coach/manager say "They just wanted to win more" but it's true, if you dont want to win then you're not going to.

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