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iacas

Cash Prizes for a Skin - Amateur Status?

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Section 3-2 of the Rules of Amateur Status says:


3-2. Prize Limits

7c8ba00f-6fa0-4668-a623-0669d51297db.gif a. General

An amateur golfer must not accept a prize (other than a symbolic prize) or prize voucher of retail value in excess of $750 or the equivalent, or such a lesser figure as may be decided by the Governing Body. This limit applies to the total prizes or prize vouchers received by an amateur golfer in any one competition or series of competitions.

Exception: Hole-in-one prizes - see Rule 3-2b.

Note 1: The prize limits apply to any form of golf competition, whether on a golf course, driving range or golf simulator, including nearest the hole and longest drive competitions. 

Note 2: The responsibility to prove the retail value of a particular prize rests with the Committee in charge of the competition.

Note 3: It is recommended that the total value of prizes in a gross competition, or each division of a handicap competition, should not exceed twice the prescribed limit in an 18-hole competition, three times in a 36-hole competition, five times in a 54-hole competition and six times in a 72-hole competition.


http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-of-amateur-status.html#!rule-03,3-2

Earlier today some of my students (aged 13-15) won a scramble tournament, which paid out in pro shop credit or something for about $100 each or something.

They also got a skin on a hole, and thought they would get $240 ($60 each) in cash.

They were stopped from accepting the cash value by a parent who knew of rule 3-2. Initially I thought that a skin might fall under the same type of ruling as a hole in one prize. It's also not like the tournament said "enter our event - first place is $700 cash!"

But the rule only mentions hole in one prizes as the exception. It doesn't mention skins, and it specifically mentions things like longest drive and closest to the pin. A skin would be more like those.

So I don't think I need an answer here, but in case anyone wants to clarify anything, please feel free.

P.S. I don't think people gambling with their own money for skins is included here at all. That's not prize money at all; that's just gambling. And this is why a lot of junior events, etc. give out pro shop credit, not cash.

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34 minutes ago, Shooting29 said:

Where did the cash for the skin come from?

I know what you're asking: it wasn't gambling (i.e. players paid to play in the tournament, but they didn't contribute separately to a skins pool).

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

Earlier today some of my students (aged 13-15) won a scramble tournament, which paid out in pro shop credit or something for about $100 each or something.

They also got a skin on a hole, and thought they would get $240 ($60 each) in cash.

So this would be $160 per golfer, right?

1 hour ago, iacas said:

An amateur golfer must not accept a prize (other than a symbolic prize) or prize voucher of retail value in excess of $750 or the equivalent, or such a lesser figure as may be decided by the Governing Body.

And the maximum is $750 per golfer, so what am I missing?

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3 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

And the maximum is $750 per golfer, so what am I missing?

That the skin was paid out as cash.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/amateur-status/amateur-status-faq-d8bb60a9.html#prizes

What is a prize voucher?

A “prize voucher” includes gift certificates, gift cards, shop credit, travel or accommodation vouchers, and vouchers for other goods and services.

Does the prize limit of $750 mean I may accept cash up to that value?

No. As an amateur golfer, you may not play for or accept a cash prize of any amount. The $750 limit applies to non-cash prizes (such as merchandise prizes or prize vouchers – see Rule 3-2a).

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I just want to make sure I understand this.  If the entry fee had included a breakdown "$10, skins game entry" it would have been okay, but because it wasn't, it's treated like a large amateur-status-breaking prize?

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1 minute ago, Shindig said:

I just want to make sure I understand this.  If the entry fee had included a breakdown "$10, skins game entry" it would have been okay, but because it wasn't, it's treated like a large amateur-status-breaking prize?

I don't know what you mean by "large." It's not large. It's $60.

But it's cash, and needed to be pro shop credit or a gift card or something.

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2 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't know what you mean by "large." It's not large. It's $60.

But it's cash, and needed to be pro shop credit or a gift card or something.

I don't know why I saw a few hundred dollars.  Maybe my inability to math from yesterday carried over.

Would cash have been okay if it were something like $10 skins game entry (listed separately with tournament fees), or would that have had to be in pro shop credit too?

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14 minutes ago, iacas said:

That the skin was paid out as cash.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/amateur-status/amateur-status-faq-d8bb60a9.html#prizes

What is a prize voucher?

A “prize voucher” includes gift certificates, gift cards, shop credit, travel or accommodation vouchers, and vouchers for other goods and services.

Does the prize limit of $750 mean I may accept cash up to that value?

No. As an amateur golfer, you may not play for or accept a cash prize of any amount. The $750 limit applies to non-cash prizes (such as merchandise prizes or prize vouchers – see Rule 3-2a).

Ah. That's not the way I would have read the rule in the OP. I was thinking:

2 hours ago, iacas said:

An amateur golfer must not accept a prize (other than a symbolic prize) or prize voucher of retail value in excess of $750 or the equivalent,

 an amateur must not accept:

       a) a prize

-or-

       b) price voucher of retail value

in excess of $750 or the equivalent.

IOW, I would have thought the rule specifically allowed cash, as written. The faq eliminates that option.

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Many Clubs have a Hole in One kitty which are very substantial.

I do not recall when they change the Payout, but now when a player win it, they can have a check written for $750 and the balance is credited towards their account.

Ours has been over 1K for many years.

Also, many clubs have Calcutta Auctions for a few events which are very large cash prizes.

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