What would you do? Player signs for correct total, but one hole is incorrect

[billchao]

Ugh. I regret commenting on this topic. I honestly don't care that much but I feel like I should respond now out of respect to others.

4 hours ago, iacas said:

So this got less interest than I thought.

This is why:

1 hour ago, iacas said:

He did breach a rule, though, and the penalty for breaching that rule is a DQ. The Committee has no authority to rescind a DQ in this case.

Because, as you and @DaveP043 pointed out, there is only one correct answer. That's why I interpreted the question more of "How do I feel about this situation?" rather than "What does the rule say I should do?" because there is literally only one answer to the second question.

33 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Neither does pushing a loud mouth safety after the play is dead.

Not really the same thing as the situation in the OP. Pushing an opponent between downs is unsportsmanlike conduct. It has an negative effect on the game in terms of order, time, and other extracurricular stuff that interferes with the playing of the game. The OP thing is purely procedural.

4 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

If it were me on the Committee, since it was a "fun tournament", I would have DQ'd him but then offered to let him play as a non-competing marker.  At least that way he still gets to enjoy the rounds, but is not part of the competition.

That's a good option and one I hadn't considered.

[Vinsk]

38 minutes ago, billchao said:

It has an negative effect on the game in terms of order, time, and other extracurricular stuff that interferes with the playing of the game. 

So do commercials. You’re stretching that quite a bit. Pushing a safety during a dead ball takes 2 seconds. It has zero affect on game play.

[billchao]

1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

So do commercials. You’re stretching that quite a bit. Pushing a safety during a dead ball takes 2 seconds. It has zero affect on game play.

Unless it leads to retaliation and other teammates jumping in. It's a rule meant to maintain order.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

It's a rule meant to maintain order.

So is writing down the correct score on the hole.

[Vinsk]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

Unless it leads to retaliation and other teammates jumping in. It's a rule meant to maintain order.

If it doesn't lead to any retaliation nor disorder, it's still a penalty, The refs don't decide to let it go because it didn't effect the game play. It's a penalty. Period. 

1 minute ago, iacas said:

So is writing down the correct score on the hole.

This.

[colin007]

If someone shoots an 82, then they shoot an 82. Doesn't matter how it's added up. Adding it incorrectly doesn't change the historical fact that he holed out in 82 strokes. If your buddy asks you what you shot last weekend, you give them the total, not the hole by hole add up.

This is my opinion. It doesn't coincide with the rules. 🍻

Edited September 7, 2018 by colin007
Spelling

[rehmwa]

Sucks for him.  Sadly the DQ is the result.  Feel bad for him, and still follow the rules.  Or....objectively follow the rules and don't feel bad or good about it.  Only caviat is to let the player DQ himself first - then if he doesn't do the right thing then take action - Always give someone the chance to own their own mistakes first.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, colin007 said:

If someone shoots an 82, then they shoot an 82. Doesn't matter how it's added up. Adding it incorrectly doesn't change the historical fact that he holed out in 82 strokes. If your buddy asks you what you shot last weekend, you give them the total, not the hole by hole add up.

This is my opinion. It doesn't coincide with the rules. 🍻

And yet, here we are, in the Rules forum.

If a player shoots 82 but breaks four other rules along the way, did they shoot 82? If he writes down a score lower than 82, did he shoot 82… or the lower score?

I'm saddened by those voting to let him keep playing. You don't get to decide on a case by case basis whether to apply the Rules of Golf or not. That's not how anything fair works.

[Vinsk]

Exactly @iacas. I understand those of you are saying it sucks, etc, etc. But the OP asked the question, "What would you do" Not "How do you feel about the rule/decision." So although I completely agree with the sentiment, I don't agree with those who are saying they'd have let it slide. A rule was breached. 

[iacas]

FWIW I don’t agree with the sentiment either.

If you have 18 holes that add up to 75 and a score that says 78, what did the guy shoot?

Counting only the 18 hole scores eliminates the confusion. They’re the score.

This is why I tell Natalie and my golf team to tear off the strip and visually check and compare every hole score.

[billchao]

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

So is writing down the correct score on the hole.

Only because the rule is to write down the score on the hole as opposed to the total. Its procedural. It's basically like getting your loan application denied because you signed somewhere you were supposed to initial. It doesn't change the end result, especially after the situation was clarified.

15 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

If it doesn't lead to any retaliation nor disorder, it's still a penalty, The refs don't decide to let it go because it didn't effect the game play. It's a penalty. Period. 

I feel like you're trying to put words in my mouth. That rule exists to prevent disorder. Things can actually escalate on a football field if you let this type of stuff go.

The situation in the OP was the total score was confirmed to be correct, despite the wrong hole score. If his 83 goes on the leaderboard, it's still an 83 because that's what he shot. The only reason he gets a DQ is because the rules say the hole scores need to be correct and the total doesn't matter. There's no penalty if the player shot an 82 but wrote 83 because that's how the rules are written even though it's basically the same error. That's all I'm saying.

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

If a player shoots 82 but breaks four other rules along the way, did they shoot 82? If he writes down a score lower than 82, did he shoot 82… or the lower score?

That's not what happened. We're discussing what actually happened, not a hypothetical about what can happen if people start ignoring other rules.

The guy shot 83. Everybody knows he shot 83. One hole is written 4 instead of 5, which was pointed out and confirmed to be in error. He still shot 83.

12 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

But the OP asked the question, "What would you do" Not "How do you feel about the rule/decision."

Yes, that's my fault. I apologize.

I'm done derailing this topic. We're just talking in circles anyway.

[Vinsk]

3 minutes ago, billchao said:

I'm done derailing this topic.

I don't think you did that at all really. I agree completely with the sentiment. But again, it's a breach of a rule that is currently in place and therefore should be followed. It wasn't and I think the decision was wrong in letting him play regardless of the unfortunate nature of it.

[saevel25]

12 minutes ago, billchao said:

The situation in the OP was the total score was confirmed to be correct, despite the wrong hole score. If his 83 goes on the leaderboard, it's still an 83 because that's what he shot. The only reason he gets a DQ is because the rules say the hole scores need to be correct and the total doesn't matter. There's no penalty if the player shot an 82 but wrote 83 because that's how the rules are written even though it's basically the same error. That's all I'm saying.

The thing is, the guy got lucky. He could have easily have misremembered his own total. This is why the rest of the tournament is protected from these mistakes by having the procedures they have. 

---

 

I voted disqualification. Playing competitive matches should required the golfer to do their due diligence in making sure they are obeying the rules. The more situations you allow the golfers to get away with not obeying the rules, the more the game breaks down. 

 

[iacas]

Oh Bill. Disappointing.

Again, there are a ton of procedural rules in all sports that don’t affect actual gameplay. They’re still important, and it’s not the role of the Committee to decide which ones to enforce on which people. You enforce them. Period.

If someone in this competition finds out what happened don’t you think it might “escalate” too? I’d be unhappy.

It is not “basically the same error.”  You can write 12 or put a or draw a picture in the total score box on the scorecard. It’s an irrelevant box.

[rehmwa]

21 minutes ago, billchao said:

I'm done derailing this topic. We're just talking in circles anyway.

Not so much, it's a good discussion on 'what would you have done'. 

I've had to learn/calibrate - a post like this in the "General" Forum was a good one to talk about what I 'think' 'should' be the way we handle things.  Or how we 'wish' the world could be - including allowing for intentions, etc.  But when it's explicitly in the "Rules of Golf" forum, I've learned to put a different hat on and stay within the forum intent.  I'm learning more that way..

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

Not so much, it's a good discussion on 'what would you have done'. 

I've had to learn/calibrate - a post like this in the "General" Forum was a good one to talk about what I 'think' 'should' be the way we handle things.  Or how we 'wish' the world could be - including allowing for intentions, etc.  But when it's explicitly in the "Rules of Golf" forum, I've learned to put a different hat on and stay within the forum intent.  I'm learning more that way..

Same answer… because the question isn’t “should be,”

[rehmwa]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Same answer… because the question isn’t “should be,”

Sure - but threads that are only 2 posts long aren't too interesting.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, rehmwa said:

Sure - but threads that are only 2 posts long aren't too interesting.

He knew the answer to the question of what the rule was before he posted.  Still belongs here.

Same is true if you want to discuss how the rule should be changed (it shouldn’t IMO).