# Are a push slice and pull hook related in terms of path?

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Had a weird round yesterday where my driver had Frankenstein tendencies come up.

2 pull hooks that I had zero chance of finding.

2 push slice that I found in extreme rough

1 push fade that I found in 1st cut rough.

4 straight hits that I could not see a curve from where I stood.

So yeah, it was hard to gameplan when I couldn't take 1 side out of the equation. With how extreme the initial ball directions were, and thinking 70% of direction is face, it got me thinking about the ball flight laws.

Does the same path produce a push slice and pull hook if your face control was all over the place? Would face control be more inconsistent than path control, shot to shot?

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17 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

Had a weird round yesterday where my driver had Frankenstein tendencies come up.

2 pull hooks that I had zero chance of finding.

2 push slice that I found in extreme rough

1 push fade that I found in 1st cut rough.

4 straight hits that I could not see a curve from where I stood.

So yeah, it was hard to gameplan when I couldn't take 1 side out of the equation. With how extreme the initial ball directions were, and thinking 70% of direction is face, it got me thinking about the ball flight laws.

Does the same path produce a push slice and pull hook if your face control was all over the place? Would face control be more inconsistent than path control, shot to shot?

I can see a straight path producing a push-fade (or slice) with an open face, and a pull-hook with a closed face.  As to which element, path of face, would be more likely to vary, I don't really know.  I suspect that path is generally more consistent, especially with a "handsy" swing, but I am far from an expert.

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32 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I can see a straight path producing a push-fade (or slice) with an open face, and a pull-hook with a closed face.  As to which element, path of face, would be more likely to vary, I don't really know.  I suspect that path is generally more consistent, especially with a "handsy" swing, but I am far from an expert.

I should also add that the hooks came after I tried to adjust for the open face. I zeroed out the swing better after the massive hooks.

The hooks were hookier than the slices were slicier if that makes sense.

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4 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

I should also add that the hooks came after I tried to adjust for the open face. I zeroed out the swing better after the massive hooks.

The hooks were hookier than the slices were slicier if that makes sense.

That could indicate a very slightly in-to-out path, or it could just be overcompensation for the slices meaning the face was more closed on the hooks than it was open on the slices. From the descriptions however it seems clear that the face angle inconsistency is a larger issue than your swing path, however.

The initial direction of the golf ball (push/pull) is primarily a factor of the face angle. The swing path factors in slightly, but it's incredibly minor (something around 10-15%, IIRC) and face angle dominates there. If the face is open, relative to the target, you will hit a push of some variety. If the face is closed, relative to the target, you will hit a pull.

The curve once the golf ball is in the air is based on the difference between the face angle and the path. If the face is closed, relative to the path, then the ball will draw or hook. If the face is open, relative to the path, then the ball will fade or slice.

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3 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

Does the same path produce a push slice and pull hook if your face control was all over the place?

Yes, it can.

3 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

Would face control be more inconsistent than path control, shot to shot?

I believe path control is usually more consistent than face control.

2 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

The hooks were hookier than the slices were slicier if that makes sense.

Then you're likely swinging in to out. The pull-hook results in a face that's more closed to the path than the push-slice is open to it, so it curves more when you pull it than when you push it.

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3 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

Are you still playing golf up there near the Arctic Circle?

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Path control is more consistent than face control.

Sounds like your path is in to out.

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