DeChambeau To Decide Whether To Leave Flagstick In Based On Its Flexibility

[nevets88]

There should be a what did he say now thread, because there is definitely going to be more like this. I mean, what he says makes sense, in theory. Has he actually tested this?

https://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/2018/11/01/bryson-dechambeau-putting-pin-2019-rules/

 

[Pretzel]

Do they use a different flagstick material for the US Open as compared to other tour events? I knew they sometimes had special flags (like the wicker baskets at Marion), but I didn't realize the sticks themselves there were different. It appears they say that US Open pins are thicker and potentially alludes to them being made from a different material, but I'd be interested in learning more about why the sticks might be different.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Pretzel

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Do they use a different flagstick material for the US Open as compared to other tour events? I knew they sometimes had special flags (like the wicker baskets at Marion), but I didn't realize the sticks themselves there were different. It appears they say that US Open pins are thicker and potentially alludes to them being made from a different material, but I'd be interested in learning more about why the sticks might be different.

I think they use a more metallic one, and they're a little bit heavier.

I still think there's an advantage, but it's probably narrowed down quite a bit to where it's not much of an advantage on the shorter shots where the ball won't be going very fast.

Did you know that a flagstick could be 4.25" in diameter, and that's perfectly legitimate in the Rules of Golf? The rules regarding the flagstick are actually pretty thin… they have to be circular in cross-section, not tapered for a certain distance (i.e. to stop you from making a flagstick that actually deflected balls down into the hole), and not made of "dampening" material… but no material is truly elastic, so they're all dampening to some degree, it just means not made out of or covered in foam or something).

 I think the USGA/R&A goofed here, and I hope they change this rule back. IMO it fundamentally changes the game from a game played into a hole to a game played into a hole with a deflecting/dampening device stuck in it. It's more like throwing a disc into a disc golf basket, with the chains that help slow the disc down so it can fall into the basket.

[Moxley]

Spot on from the scientist, although I'm guessing it's more clear cut at regular  golf courses where they'll all essentially be made the same?

I like leaving the flagstick in (and often do when playing alone), but I think it'll be interesting in social games next year, when  people start asking for the flag to be put back in again, and you have all sorts of messing about as different players have different preferences (which they almost certainly will)  leading to some instances of it being replaced and lifted multiple times during putting. It's for this reason, rather than the impact on the putts themselves, that I think they'll change their minds. 

In the meantime, I'll happily take the advantage and have it in. 

[saevel25]

That will be interesting. I think most people will take the pin out, just because of habit to start.

I will be leaving the pin in.

[klineka]

I think it will be interesting to see what percentage of the guys on tour putt with the flagstick in and what percentage will continue to take it out.

I will play with the flag in on long putts, but if someone I'm playing with pulls the flag and I'm inside 10 feet, I'm likely not going to have them put it back just for my putt.

[billchao]

15 minutes ago, klineka said:

I think it will be interesting to see what percentage of the guys on tour putt with the flagstick in and what percentage will continue to take it out.

I bet most of them take it out. A lot of them already pull the pin when chipping.

I'd honestly be surprised if more than a handful of tour players leave it in.

17 minutes ago, klineka said:

I will play with the flag in on long putts, but if someone I'm playing with pulls the flag and I'm inside 10 feet, I'm likely not going to have them put it back just for my putt.

I will politely remind people it could remain in the hole as we putt, but I'll end up playing however everyone else in my group does, in or out.

[rehmwa]

14 hours ago, nevets88 said:

There should be a what did he say now thread

 

So - even though he's right and thinking about it correctly, it's still an eye-roll comment?

I suspect just about every single pro will play with this a lot and 'test' it out in their own way - (at least it's stupid for those that don't).  Competion is too tight to not at least see if it provides any incremental advantage.  BCD?  he'll just be the one to give more than a cursory explanation of why - the others will just say they played around and decided "(fill in here)".  At least this is easy and quick and the decision is made before the tournament - so it's not like they stand around and debate it forever.

Strangely enough, if the dialogue does encourage more to relook at it and mess around with it and the data is compelling, I wonder if that will change how they look at chipping from off the green?  not Phil (frankly, he does a lot of it, IMO, just for showmanship.  Pulling the pin from 70 yards is just catering to the fans to set up a dramatic setup.  Like a baseball player pointing to the far fence.)

I'm not a fan of it though for putting (TV looks cool when there's just the green and hole), and, I suspect we'll see cases where the flag comes in and out on the same hole depending on who's turn to putt and how far away they are. 

Personally - I don't care.  If it's in or out when it's my turn, I'll just leave it as is.

Clearly the only true solution is a hologram of a flag that just stays on 100% of the time.  Perhaps with advertising floating up and down on it and the ability to take food and drink orders for delivery to the course.

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by rehmwa

[Slim_Pivot]

USGA messed this rule up BAD. Their “intent” was to speed up play; now it’s gonna be in, out, in, out. I saw this coming from my couch when it was announced. What were they thinking?!

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Slim_Pivot said:

USGA messed this rule up BAD. Their “intent” was to speed up play; now it’s gonna be in, out, in, out. I saw this coming from my couch when it was announced. What were they thinking?!

I think the "in, out, in, out" dance will not happen too often, but it's gonna happen more often than people wanting to hit a putt and nobody being near the flagstick to tend it.

[mcanadiens]

If the score means anything in particular, I'm not going to hesitate to demand the stick go back in the hole. By myself, I often leave it in. My putts are always a bit braver when that backstop is there.

In time, my guess is that most people will just leave it in, but its going to be a bit awkward for awhile.

[rehmwa]

30 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

In time, my guess is that most people will just leave it in, but its going to be a bit awkward for awhile.

Golf is really equipment focused.  Get ready for published standardization rules, testing and very expensive "conforming" flagsticks.

And also get ready for the sticky types to complain about things like how dirty or wet the sticks are on any given tournament.  If not complain, wait for them to take extra time to wipe off the stick, or complain when another player doesn't......

 

bonus point if you see what I did there.....

Edited November 2, 2018 by rehmwa

[NM Golf]

People are often misinformed about how things actually work. I play with a bunch of guys that believe the flag deflects the ball and prevents it from going in. So they will all continue to pull the flag because they see it as a disadvantage to leave it in. 

These are also the same people who continually debate be as to the importance of the short game vs. the long game. Close minded buffoons most of them, and they wonder why I take their money all the time. 

[phan52]

I have hit the pin many times from off the green and my experience is that it is totally random whether it goes in the hole or not. I know i will remove the pin when I putt. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, phan52 said:

I have hit the pin many times from off the green and my experience is that it is totally random whether it goes in the hole or not. I know i will remove the pin when I putt. 

Yeah, cuz who needs science?!?!

You are costing yourself strokes but do as you please.

[colin007]

20 hours ago, phan52 said:

I have hit the pin many times from off the green and my experience is that it is totally random whether it goes in the hole or not. I know i will remove the pin when I putt. 

 Smarter people than you or I have tested it. It's not random, You are costing yourself strokes. Be smarter than that. 

[Aflighter]

It will Definately allow the viewers on tv and at the event to see hole better with a flagsticks still in but will look weird on tv watching guys putt with flagsticks in.Caddies should be happy cause it will be less work for them having to put flagsticks back in.

[Double Mocha Man]

Our winner today, Mr. DeChambeau, loves the flagstick rule.  He intends to always leave the stick in.  With the exception of U.S. Opens where the stick has a greater circumference.  He claims it's a Coefficient of Restitution thing... yep, sounds like Bryson.