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Playing with Irons Only


MyWay
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Hi Ive just joined the forum having snooped around for various answers over the past months.

I play in the UK on a short-is course, I often watch other players attempt to smash their drivers on all but the short par 3's, and have started to count the number of fairway finders Ive actually seen (its surprisingly few).

A number of years ago I started self loathing at the number of good rounds (80's) I wrecked by being 3 off the T or out of bounds with a brave 3 wood from the FW.

I play irons only now and have done for 4+ years. Ive just changed from Mizuno MP-15's to MP-18 SC's PW - 3i + I bought MP-18 Fli-Hi's 6i - 2i. Interesting how the Fli-Hi 3i loft is 19' and the 2i 16.5' in my world thats 2i and 1i lofts.

My point is that as a keen amateur playing 80's golf I really don't need a driver or woods. I use the yardages to my advantage and work backwards from the green to see what I need to leave no more than a 7i approach. one of our harder holes is a par 5 with out of bounds right and a pond left that takes 183 yards to carry, out of frustration one windy day I T'd off with an 8i (short of the pond) hit 2 x 5i's and sank the put for a birdie... I may be the only person contemplating an 8i from the T of a par 5, but having options is always useful.

Anyone else experienced my level of self loathing and left their driver and woods at home?

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55 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Anyone else experienced my level of self loathing and left their driver and woods at home?

I often have my college players play a round or two in the fall this way from shorter tees, and often they're surprised at how well they score.

But… that's from 5700 yards or so, and the reduction in scoring comes from being able to hit 4I and still have a wedge into a green. From 6700 yards, they'd be toast generally speaking.

Distance is important, so long as you have some control over that distance. You're artificially lowering the ceiling on your ability to put together a score, and having done it for 4+ years just seems like a silly choice to make. I mean, I'm glad you enjoy golf and all, but I'd have thought you could spend a little time figuring out how to at least hit even a 3W relatively straight to ease the scoring burden.

Your example on the par five with an 8I is an outlier. You're not going to average lower doing that than hitting something even 220 off the tee and getting a 5I green side with your second shot (or something else to even 70 yards or so).

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29 minutes ago, iacas said:

Distance is important, so long as you have some control over that distance. You're artificially lowering the ceiling on your ability to put together a score, and having done it for 4+ years just seems like a silly choice to make. I mean, I'm glad you enjoy golf and all, but I'd have thought you could spend a little time figuring out how to at least hit even a 3W relatively straight to ease the scoring burden.

Thanks for your thoughts iacas, I can (8/10 times) hit my 2i 230+ yards and often outdrive some playing partners with my 5i. My whole game enjoyment revolves around staying in play and as far as possible positioning for my next shot. My course plays 6049 yards from the comp T's.

My bad swing is a righties out to in, with a 5i not a big problem, with a driver its reload. Im more interested in why so many amateurs shy away from 4i+ and then bandage their swings with hybrids, woods and massage their egos with a driver they constantly fail to hit further than 200 yards.

That said can I reach single figures with just irons? 

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17 minutes ago, MyWay said:

That said can I reach single figures with just irons? 

Probably but again you're artificially setting yourself up to shoot higher scores than you could if you gained even some control over your driver.

18 minutes ago, MyWay said:

My bad swing is a righties out to in, with a 5i not a big problem, with a driver its reload.

Then I'd work on improving your swing so you can hit all the clubs, including a driver.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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14 minutes ago, iacas said:

Then I'd work on improving your swing so you can hit all the clubs, including a driver.

My problem is, and perhaps its an age thing. I don't trust my driver I regularly take it to the practice field but it doesn't make it onto the course. I strike my irons so well that it doesn't make sense to risk a wayward drive, even the pros don't have that high a 'greens in reg' % and they have spotters and fans and grandstands to bounce theirs off...

I totally get you wouldn't teach college students to delete club options, but I came to the game in my 30's and have spent 15 years concluding (in a risk adverse way) that shorter and in play saves me shots.

I play/practice 5 times a week and have a lesson once a fortnight, perhaps its just a lack of natural ability.

I can drive 275+ yards but only 25% will be in play and my home course has a lot of OB limiting a shot from the wrong FW. I notice the pros often using long irons for tight courses.

No one else like me out there, happy with irons only?

 

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First off hitting driver is fun. Playing a round without hitting any type of wood sounds...well...boring as hell. I hit my 2 iron an average of 267 yards (GAME GOLF), and when I really catch it out to nearly 300. I have people tell me all the time, "If I could hit a 2 iron as far as you I would never hit driver." I always ask why. The closer to the green I can get the better off I am, period. I'd rather hit a wedge out of the rough than a 5 iron out of the fairway on any day. 

As Erik already said, you are severely limiting your ability to shoot lower scores by giving up on you driver and 3 wood. The longer the course the more it will affect you. If I were you I would put in a little work on my longer clubs until they are not as much of a glaring weakness. Fairways hit is a non-stat.

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2 minutes ago, MyWay said:

 even the pros don't have that high a 'greens in reg' % 

You're wrong. The best players on tour last year were all around 70% GIR or higher. Thats 12-13 GIR per round, every single round. That's pretty freaking high considering how hard golf is and the length of the courses they play.

5 minutes ago, MyWay said:

but I came to the game in my 30's and have spent 15 years concluding (in a risk adverse way) that shorter and in play saves me shots.

But you could save even more shots if you practiced the driver to the point where you kept it in play and hit it 275+ instead of 230 with your 2 iron.

6 minutes ago, MyWay said:

I can drive 275+ yards but only 25% will be in play and my home course has a lot of OB limiting a shot from the wrong FW. 

Then your driving accuracy is a glaring weakness and should be the thing you spent the most time practicing. 

8 minutes ago, MyWay said:

I notice the pros often using long irons for tight courses.

Just because the pros use long irons for tight courses doesn't mean it is the statistically best option for them off the tee.

9 minutes ago, MyWay said:

No one else like me out there, happy with irons only?

Most of the people on this forum are aware how important distance is in golf, and if they can't hit it straight enough to keep it in bounds, they are actively working on it. You are only hindering your long term scoring capabilities by refusing to work to improve your driver accuracy.  So no, it's unlikely that you'll find many people on this forum who are happy with irons only and aren't at the very least working to improve their driver.

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Decades ago, when hitting a steel shafted wooden-headed driver was a bit of a challenge for me, I contemplated playing without a driver or 3-wood.  Ultimately, the distance given up limited my potential to improve beyond a certain point.  So I set about learning how to hit them consistently.

Of course, I was never able to hit a 2 iron straight and 230 yards (in fact I never owned a 2 iron).  Still, I think those who counsel you to learn how to hit a consistent driver/3-wood are giving you good advice.

Brian Kuehn

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2 hours ago, MyWay said:

Anyone else experienced my level of self loathing and left their driver and woods at home?

I've played whole rounds for stretches without hitting driver or fairway wood off the tee and never noticed a difference in overall scoring. Sometimes you gain a little, and other times you lose a little. And I'm one of the most erratic drivers of the ball I've ever seen.

Theoretically I would eliminate the big push right OB or in another fairway with my driver, but then I learned that I can still hit a big push with an iron and still be in a terrible spot. The irons also come with their own misses that the driver doesn't have, for example the chunked or topped iron miss ends up being more of a thinned driver shot that runs out 150 instead of 40 yards with the iron.

When I do improve my scoring is when I'm smart about my tee shot selection instead of blindly eliminating all woods or only hitting woods. This involves assessing each hole, the conditions, as well as how well I'm swinging that day. There are days where I'll hit driver off the tee on a tight hole and others where I won't on the same hole. I'd be limiting myself if I based my decision making solely on a predetermined plan rather than adjusting to real time conditions. 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

From 6700 yards, they'd be toast generally speaking.

I learned that the hard way this year when I lost the ability to drive the ball. Golf is really hard if you're hitting 4i-4i into greens all the time.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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52 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

Fairways hit is a non-stat.

Not on my course, thanks for your thoughts/advise though.

 

51 minutes ago, klineka said:

You're wrong. The best players on tour last year were all around 70% GIR or higher. Thats 12-13 GIR per round, every single round. That's pretty freaking high considering how hard golf is and the length of the courses they play.

Then your driving accuracy is a glaring weakness and should be the thing you spent the most time practicing. 

Just because the pros use long irons for tight courses doesn't mean it is the statistically best option for them off the tee.

I think the statistic I was going for was FW hit (if it differs) either way 70% when your doing it for a living leaves lots of room for improvement.

Yes driving accuracy is my weakness, my work around with irons seems to be getting a reaction. Is it because the average golfer has limited time and so driver at the range is the easier option?

I think it is statistically their best option otherwise why do they use long irons on tight courses.

 

58 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Of course, I was never able to hit a 2 iron straight and 230 yards (in fact I never owned a 2 iron).  Still, I think those who counsel you to learn how to hit a consistent driver/3-wood are giving you good advice.

Im not disagreeing with the advice (well perhaps a bit) we are all different and I wondered if there where other folk out there that struggle like me. Strangely when I do use woods and a driver then I loose confidence with long irons very quickly, I like multi use clubs and can hit a 2i from the FW also, where as a driver would only be used on 11 holes where I play.

 

1 hour ago, billchao said:

When I do improve my scoring is when I'm smart about my tee shot selection instead of blindly eliminating all woods or only hitting woods. This involves assessing each hole, the conditions, as well as how well I'm swinging that day. There are days where I'll hit driver off the tee on a tight hole and others where I won't on the same hole. I'd be limiting myself if I based my decision making solely on a predetermined plan rather than adjusting to real time conditions. 

I appreciate your comments, I think Im close to that strategy but with less ability (and less woods) my pre determined plan does have leeway with 5i - 1i options wind direction/strength allowing.

Thank you to everyone for your replies its great to verbalise thoughts and get feedback.

 

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23 minutes ago, MyWay said:

I think the statistic I was going for was FW hit (if it differs) either way 70% when your doing it for a living leaves lots of room for improvement.

Huh? 70% is really damn good for the courses they play.

What are you talking about?

23 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Yes driving accuracy is my weakness, my work around with irons seems to be getting a reaction. Is it because the average golfer has limited time and so driver at the range is the easier option?

No, it's because it's statistically a poor way to play golf if you want to shoot lower scores.

23 minutes ago, MyWay said:

I think it is statistically their best option otherwise why do they use long irons on tight courses.

They don't often hit irons off the tee. Occasionally, yes, but even at the U.S. Open they primarily hit driver, and often.

Distance is VERY important to the modern game at every level.

23 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Im not disagreeing with the advice (well perhaps a bit) we are all different and I wondered if there where other folk out there that struggle like me.

I think that if you have bi-weekly lessons, and you've not found a way to fix your driving in four years, you're either not trying to fix your driving properly or something, because if you have the skill to hit a 2-iron 230 80% of the time, you have the skill to hit a driver or a 3W pretty well.

You're choosing not to at this point.

And it's costing you.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Huh? 70% is really damn good for the courses they play.

What are you talking about?

No, it's because it's statistically a poor way to play golf if you want to shoot lower scores.

They don't often hit irons off the tee. Occasionally, yes, but even at the U.S. Open they primarily hit driver, and often.

Distance is VERY important to the modern game at every level.

I think that if you have bi-weekly lessons, and you've not found a way to fix your driving in four years, you're either not trying to fix your driving properly or something, because if you have the skill to hit a 2-iron 230 80% of the time, you have the skill to hit a driver or a 3W pretty well.

You're choosing not to at this point.

And it's costing you.

Im talking about if the best players in the world fail 3/10 times then what expectation should the average club golfer have? 50%? lower.... probably lower, so then logic dictates you find a workable alternative.

Im sure your right that its statistically poor way to play golf in general, but Im talking about my personal findings, and sadly a driver (at the mo) is not my friend.

Yes I agree distance is important only 2nd to accuracy. 

You may have hit the nail on the head, its my fault that Im not better or not willing to accept the disappointment of being 3 from the T. Perhaps my personal skill set is maxed out with irons. Obviously with your experience and ability I can't really argue, but can you teach all old dogs new tricks? The driver is a very different feel for me. I know lots of teaching professionals say its the same swing for every club but I don't agree.

I will however bow to the knowledge and experience here and challenge myself to practice better.

Thank you!

 

 

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40 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Im talking about if the best players in the world fail 3/10 times then what expectation should the average club golfer have? 50%? lower.... probably lower, so then logic dictates you find a workable alternative.

Huh?

Hitting only irons is going to further reduce your ability to hit a green in regulation. It's going to lower that percentage.

It's often easier to hit a green with an 8-iron from the right rough than a 4-iron from the fairway.

And failing "3/10 times" is a really great ratio.

At the end of the day, you've had four years to work on your driving to the point that you could use it to help you shoot lower scores, and you've not done that, so you're here arguing that using irons only makes sense. It does not in the long term.

In the short term, or on a special occasion, it can. But over the long haul, no. It makes no sense.

40 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Im sure your right that its statistically poor way to play golf in general, but Im talking about my personal findings, and sadly a driver (at the mo) is not my friend.

Use some of your bi-weekly lessons to make it one.

40 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Yes I agree distance is important only 2nd to accuracy.

For amateurs it's often more important than accuracy, because hitting it farther off the tee gives you a shorter club for your second shot which can help improve your accuracy, too. I'm more likely to hit the green with an 8I than a 4I.

40 minutes ago, MyWay said:

You may have hit the nail on the head, its my fault that Im not better or not willing to accept the disappointment of being 3 from the T. Perhaps my personal skill set is maxed out with irons. Obviously with your experience and ability I can't really argue, but can you teach all old dogs new tricks? The driver is a very different feel for me. I know lots of teaching professionals say its the same swing for every club but I don't agree.

It's not the same swing, but it's not a completely different swing either.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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27 minutes ago, iacas said:

Huh?

Hitting only irons is going to further reduce your ability to hit a green in regulation. It's going to lower that percentage.

Im not talking about every golfer just my situation.

I suppose it comes down to 'can I shoot low scores with my preferred choice of clubs'. You would argue no? Im wondering if I spent my time practicing with my irons could I improve to say single figures.

Would an 8 handicapper be sufficiently skilled to use just irons around a 6000 yard course to shoot 78? It all depends on the individuals skill set.

Ive mentioned a 230 yard 2i shot that I regularly hit I have also struck my 1i 260+yards far less frequently, and a wind assisted 3i 250 from the FW. Im more confident with my irons and staying in play than I am with the prospect of slapping my driver about on a course with many hazards. So my logic still stands a 16' iron with matched shafts to another 8 irons that I can hit from the T or FW v's trying to improve my 9' stiff G400 accuracy, or a higher lofted driver I guess you'd argue.

I quite often play in mixed competitions and its interesting to see how female club golfers approach the game, some with a maximum drive of less than 170 yards and using 22' hybrids for 140 yard par 3's. Effectively their drive is my mid iron. Im not talking about getting to scratch here Im looking at my next step. low teens ideally lower.

Should the game be played with 14 assorted clubs, probably. Does it have to be... Is there some magic macho testosterone fulled wall every golfer hits who doesn't use a driver. Ben Hogans 1i shot from the FW is still celebrated today, DJ and the new breed's massive drives are impressive but they won't be revered for years to come because we know its the technology + a big dollop of skill. Does lack some purity though doesn't it....?

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29 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Im not talking about every golfer just my situation.

So was I.

29 minutes ago, MyWay said:

I suppose it comes down to 'can I shoot low scores with my preferred choice of clubs'. You would argue no? Im wondering if I spent my time practicing with my irons could I improve to say single figures.

If you can hit your 2-iron 230 8/10 times, you can certainly, in four years that you've been hitting irons only, figure out how to hit your driver well enough to make it advantageous for you.

29 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Would an 8 handicapper be sufficiently skilled to use just irons around a 6000 yard course to shoot 78? It all depends on the individuals skill set.

To be perfectly blunt, I don't really care about that question. I see that as pointless. If you want to get to a lower handicap, you're willingly choosing to ignore something that will help you get there: learning to hit your driver. Or even a 3W.

29 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Im more confident with my irons and staying in play than I am with the prospect of slapping my driver about on a course with many hazards.

And once again, I'll say the same thing again: learn to become better with your driver. You've had four years, and you take lessons bi-weekly. Devote almost ALL of those lessons to learning to hit your driver. That's your best path forward.

29 minutes ago, MyWay said:

Is there some magic macho testosterone fulled wall every golfer hits who doesn't use a driver. Ben Hogans 1i shot from the FW is still celebrated today, DJ and the new breed's massive drives are impressive but they won't be revered for years to come because we know its the technology + a big dollop of skill. Does lack some purity though doesn't it....?

That has nothing to do with this.

I'm suggesting you learn to hit a driver because it's the best, smartest path forward. You're willingly choosing to hamper your ability to shoot lower scores.

That's it.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Many, many golfers can only wish they had your problem. Seriously, you're acting as though the driver is some complex and unobtainable club that only the elite can hit. Like @iacas stated, if you can hit a 2i as accurate and far as you do, it simply cannot be that difficult to learn to hit your driver. Imagine your golf game, a recent one. Picture your holes and how you played them. Now imagine playing those holes having hit your tee shot 275yds. With your irons skill, think how your scoring would improve. The problem is as soon as I stated that you probably thought to yourself, 'yeah..imagine hitting it 275yds ob and having to reload.' You've gotta stop that negative thinking. You can hit driver. You hit a friggin' 2i like you say and you don't think you can hit a driver? The answer is right in front of you. Just do it.

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Ok thanks Vinsk, I definitely do think negatively about using a driver it has become a mystical club for me. I have a lesson tomorrow and will discuss all of this doubt then. I suppose the way I play currently is fun for me because there is less risk. My 2 lowest ever scores have been with a 2i or 5 wood as my longest club. My most recent best score was with no more than a 3i. The real danger is ending up playing with less & less clubs.

Thanks again iacas. I feel sufficiently challenged now. Gonna unchain my driver and wheel it down the practice field like Hannibal Lecter and set it free. It's not gonna be pretty...!

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6 hours ago, MyWay said:

Thanks again iacas. I feel sufficiently challenged now. Gonna unchain my driver and wheel it down the practice field like Hannibal Lecter and set it free. It's not gonna be pretty...!

Like I said, if you can hit a 2I 230+ 8/10 times, you can learn to hit a driver, and in not that much time. Give it a few lessons focusing specifically on that.

And consider starting a Member Swing topic.

In the end if you truly have fun hitting irons only, that's cool by me. But I think you'll have more fun shooting lower scores and learning to hit your driver.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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