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LeftyWhiff

Foursome Scorecard

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I have an etiquette question, but there may not be a standard answer for it.I play in two groups. One keeps a common scorecard and we report our scores to the person in the 4-some keeping score per hole. We also show an interest in one another's game and round. It's a great group to play with. The other group doesn't keep a common scorecard, ever, and some don't claim to keep score at all. The first group is obviously more serious.

Anyway, an associate was invited to play in the more serious foursome and refused to report his score to the group's scorekeeper at the first hole. None of the regulars said anything about it, but there was an odd distance in the round not common for this group. What's the etiquette here? If the convention is a common scorecard for the group, should golfers share their score with the group, especially when they are invited to play with them? On one hand, what difference does it make? We weren't betting, certainly not with a relative stranger in the group. If someone wants to put up a fantasy score, let 'em have it. On the other hand, not sharing with folks who invited you to play with them seems rather chicken-shit and stand-offish. Of course, when we play with strangers, noone shares scores per hole or uses a common scorecard. I generally have a good time playing with strangers this way--low stress and you learn a lot about new people and golf stuff. What's the convention, opinion on this? 

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36 minutes ago, LeftyWhiff said:

I have an etiquette question, but there may not be a standard answer for it.I play in two groups. One keeps a common scorecard and we report our scores to the person in the 4-some keeping score per hole. We also show an interest in one another's game and round. It's a great group to play with. The other group doesn't keep a common scorecard, ever, and some don't claim to keep score at all. The first group is obviously more serious.

Anyway, an associate was invited to play in the more serious foursome and refused to report his score to the group's scorekeeper at the first hole. None of the regulars said anything about it, but there was an odd distance in the round not common for this group. What's the etiquette here? If the convention is a common scorecard for the group, should golfers share their score with the group, especially when they are invited to play with them? On one hand, what difference does it make? We weren't betting, certainly not with a relative stranger in the group. If someone wants to put up a fantasy score, let 'em have it. On the other hand, not sharing with folks who invited you to play with them seems rather chicken-shit and stand-offish. Of course, when we play with strangers, noone shares scores per hole or uses a common scorecard. I generally have a good time playing with strangers this way--low stress and you learn a lot about new people and golf stuff. What's the convention, opinion on this? 

 Did all of you mention your scoring routine prior to playing? Being that he was new to the group I would’ve mentioned that prior to playing and have it settled then. 

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I often just keep my own score. It's annoying and tedious to have to report my score to someone as if it matters at all when there's no betting, etc.

What's the point?

Your group was completely in the wrong to care at all, and the dude who wanted to keep his own score was completely fine. If you guys behaved differently because he wanted to keep his own score or whatever, that's entirely on you, IMO.

You weren't betting, so again… what's the point? If he posts a 75 and you know he didn't shoot that, well, either report him to the handicap committee or let him have his vanity cap.

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Interesting responses. Noone I play with keeps a handicap, so that's not the issue.  I don't think anyone treated anyone poorly, and nothing was said or discussed about it then or after. I noticed it and have wondered about it. The issue is etiquette and expectations. My limited experience is that some folks who play regularly together keep a common scorecard, others don't. When I have played as a stranger with other groups, some did and asked me if they wanted me to keep score with them and I declined.  I guess there are no expectations  or rules of etiquette regarding how much of the experience you share, or are expected to share. Good enough.

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20 minutes ago, LeftyWhiff said:

Interesting responses. Noone I play with keeps a handicap, so that's not the issue.  I don't think anyone treated anyone poorly, and nothing was said or discussed about it then or after. I noticed it and have wondered about it.

Really?

3 hours ago, LeftyWhiff said:

None of the regulars said anything about it, but there was an odd distance in the round not common for this group. … On the other hand, not sharing with folks who invited you to play with them seems rather chicken-shit and stand-offish.

I didn't take that as "everything was hunky dory." If it was, you likely wouldn't have posted about it.

20 minutes ago, LeftyWhiff said:

The issue is etiquette and expectations.

This isn't either of those things. Who violated etiquette? He did by not "letting" someone else write down his scores?

20 minutes ago, LeftyWhiff said:

My limited experience is that some folks who play regularly together keep a common scorecard, others don't.

I don't mean this rudely; I'm genuinely asking: why not just ask, get an answer, and move on? "Hey bud, you want us to write your scores down?" then "No? Okay, cool." or "Yes? Happy to, man."

I'm not sure why there was "distance" or someone was seen as "stand-off-ish"? It probably had a lot more to do with the fact that he was new and the three of you all knew each other pretty well, no?

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3 hours ago, LeftyWhiff said:

not sharing with folks who invited you to play with them seems rather chicken-shit and stand-offish.

What's the convention, opinion on this? 

At least we know your opinion about this.😂

This is the one thing that stuck out in an otherwise well written question.

I can only offer that most people I normally play with don’t really keep score unless money or a prize is involved.

I played with a threesome who happened to not have their usual 4th. Shot one of my best rounds, and I heard an argument amongst the three of them about my score on a birdie hole. Wasn’t looking like they were very happy...maybe that’s what this dude wanted to avoid? Because after that, I doubt I’d ever let a stranger group keep my score again 🤪

Golf is supposed to be fun.😁

 

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14 minutes ago, iacas said:

Really?

I didn't take that as "everything was hunky dory." If it was, you likely wouldn't have posted about it.

This isn't either of those things. Who violated etiquette? He did by not "letting" someone else write down his scores?

I don't mean this rudely; I'm genuinely asking: why not just ask, get an answer, and move on? "Hey bud, you want us to write your scores down?" then "No? Okay, cool." or "Yes? Happy to, man."

I'm not sure why there was "distance" or someone was seen as "stand-off-ish"? It probably had a lot more to do with the fact that he was new and the three of you all knew each other pretty well, no?

Good enough, sorry for the confusion. To me it's not so much what happened on the actual round, but what the general expectation is, so:

Another way to frame the issue is this: If I personally refused to participate and post my score on a common scorecard when asked to play with a group that did that I had some connection to, would I be violating a norm and come off as "chickenshit" or "standoffish" at some level. Is there a common expectation with regard to this practice?  if so what is it? I don't know the answer to either of these questions.

The "odd distance" was there didn't seem to me to be as much sharing and discussing during the round, but no one mentioned it, so it could have been my impression. I'm pretty sure with strangers it's never an expectation, and it's never been with any group I've ever played with. Beyond that, I'm ignorant. One group I play with regularly keeps a common scorecard, one doesn't. I've played with a few others that did keep the common scorecard, mostly as a stranger.

 

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If somebody I played with decided to just keep their individual score it's no sweat off of my brow.    I wouldn't have an attitude and would hope they wouldn't either.   I can enjoy their company without a number causing a fuss.

 

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16 minutes ago, LeftyWhiff said:

To me it's not so much what happened on the actual round, but what the general expectation is, so:

Huh? Why is that the "general expectation"?

16 minutes ago, LeftyWhiff said:

If I personally refused to participate and post my score on a common scorecard when asked to play with a group that did that I had some connection to, would I be violating a norm and come off as "chickenshit" or "standoffish" at some level.

No!

16 minutes ago, LeftyWhiff said:

Is there a common expectation with regard to this practice?

No. Again:

50 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't mean this rudely; I'm genuinely asking: why not just ask, get an answer, and move on? "Hey bud, you want us to write your scores down?" then "No? Okay, cool." or "Yes? Happy to, man."

So…

16 minutes ago, LeftyWhiff said:

The "odd distance" was there didn't seem to me to be as much sharing and discussing during the round, but no one mentioned it, so it could have been my impression. I'm pretty sure with strangers it's never an expectation

That guy WAS a stranger to your group.

You guys weren't playing for anything, not even a handicap (for some reason?). Why does it matter whether he "refuses to report his score"?

Live and let live, man. That saying applies to things far, far more serious than writing down some meaningless numbers on a piece of paper.

I wouldn't be surprised if that guy doesn't play with you again, and probably thinks you're all a bunch of jerks.

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When playing with strangers, I will share my score if they ask. A lot of times even if they don't ask. Example might be,  I may say something like "that's a 5 for me" when picking my ball out of the hole. Or, on the last hole, as the ball rolls into hole, I might say something like "that's an 84 for me". 

Myself, when playing with strangers, I don't really care what they score. If they are not counting their strokes correctly, that's their own issue. After a hole or two, I will know their reason for being on the course. Other times, if a player is scoring a low round, correctly, I still won't care about their score, but I will admire, and be some what envious of their golf swing/stroke.

When with our friendley 4-8 group of golfers, when playing for something, some will keep their own score, even though there is a central card being kept. 

Other times, I will often mistake proper golf etiquette, with different forms of common courtesy. Sometimes that common courtesy being who cares, keep your mouth shut, and move on. 

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2 minutes ago, Patch said:

Sometimes that common courtesy being who cares, keep your mouth shut, and move on. 

That's what should have been applied here - who cares that he doesn't want to keep his score on the "common card"? Why is there even a topic about it, and why was he potentially mistreated or looked down upon for not making someone else write his score down?

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5 hours ago, LeftyWhiff said:

On one hand, what difference does it make? We weren't betting, certainly not with a relative stranger in the group. If someone wants to put up a fantasy score, let 'em have it.

Chicken shit....

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I just want to apologize for the way I worded this in the beginning. Using terms like "chickenshit" or "standoff-ish" even in a hypothetical, on the other hand, can be viewed very offensively, and I've offended people. I am truly sorry. The guy in the example in the round I described was not a stranger; he was a friend. He was known to some of us quite well, but hadn't golfed in this group, so some of us were strangers to him.  

On the issue of what's the expectation/norm with regard to the common scorecard, the message from the responses seems clear: there isn't any and it's perfectly fine not to participate. To expect otherwise or to be judgmental is rude. Treat people with respect, OK, I'm good with that and learned something from this.

AGain, I apologize for the offense. I'm the ass here; not the people I golf with. ONe group I play with doesn't ever keep a common scorecard; one does. When I started I played alone and hooked up through the scorer or from folks nice enough to ask me to play with them. Most of the folks who came to the course together to play did seem to keep a common scorecard. I find the practice interesting. 

Good game; good folks. I learn a lot from all aspects of it.

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Just now, Vinsk said:

Yeah it's all good. And I was just messing' with ya. 

Yeah for me it never rose anywhere near to where you should apologize to us. Maybe to that guy, just by saying "Sorry if we acted funny when you didn't want us to keep your score. Our bad."

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The only time I've been added to a group and they asked about keeping my score was when I was walking on solo and the starter added me to a men's league (12 guys? 16?) for one of their regular guys who was a last-minute no-show.  Each group of four was competing as a team against the other groups, so of course keeping everyone's score was necessary.

I think I lost something like 50 cents at the end of the round.

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I've joined threesomes before that asked if I want them to keep my score and usually I say, "no, it's OK, I keep my own." They are always cool with it.

In my regular foursome with my retired friends, we keep a common card because we have a bet going for the round. But we usually keep our own because reporting your score usually goes like this.

Tim: Johnny, what did you get on that hole?

Johnny: Thursday!

Scott: Tim! I got a 4 on this hole.

Tim: A what?

Scott (loudly): FOUR!

They all duck.

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