Dormie Club - Coore/Crenshaw

[iacas]

Originally posted on GCA…

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Most of the topics here about the Dormie Club seem to be old (except the one I just bumped) or deal with holes 14/15 only (like the one I just bumped). So I thought it'd be okay to start a NEW topic about the course.

I played it the Sunday after the Newport Cup (a Ryder Cup-style event), so, October 22.

We had the first tee time of the day (7:50) and the shop duo were actually kinda late to show up, so we hung out at the front gate until about 7:40. I didn't mind - we weren't planning to spend an hour warming up anyway. 🙂

Of the holes there, I really thought 14 stood out, along with 4, 8, 10, 16, and 17. I would rank 3 and 12 as the holes I liked the least. Three seemed like a layup short of the waste area to the right 210 yards or so (it's only 20 yards left of the sand, and 270 or so to carry it), and 12, not being able to see the green contours makes the hole bit goofy the first time you play it. It's undoubtedly a better hole the third or fourth time around, but two of the guys with whom I played had their balls hang up in the fringe above the hole, and could barely get the ball to stop 15 feet below the hole. I'm good with some "local knowledge" but this felt a bit much.

This was my first Coore & Crenshaw course, and so I'm not going to rank it or anything like that. Among the courses I like that I've played, I have Oakmont, the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island, Camargo Club, The Old Course, Caledonia, and North Berwick. I'm nowhere near as traveled as many here, but I've done okay for myself in the time I've had to play golf instead of teaching it.🙂

I like courses that make you think from time to time, courses that give you a choice, and occasionally say "okay, here's the shot, let's see if you can hit it." Except for having a few too many right-to-left holes I felt the Dormie Club did this beautifully. When I realized we'd be playing from about 6700 yards, my host said "yeah, there are a few 480-yard par fours here" I scoffed, thinking he was over-stating it because he's kind of short off the tee. But, there were a few of them, no doubt, and a few short ones to make up for the yardage eaten by the beasts.

In particular, I loved the swooping draw second shot I had to play to the 8th hole. I loved the tenth, too, which just dared you to let the shaft out (with a little control on the second shot). I liked the blind shots (my second shot on six, the 11th IIRC I played too far to the left away from the sand, so I couldn't see the flagstick) for the most part, except maybe the 12th (and that's only "blah" the first time around).

I liked, of course, the way the course sat upon the land. The conditioning was great. The bunkers (no rakes) felt natural. I apologize if I sound like a newb saying that. I am. 🙂

I loved the greens. I grew up playing some greens built in the 1950s, with a lot of contour, so I've come to appreciate putting on good greens. I appreciated using the contours of the greens - and the run-up areas in front of them - to help get the ball to the hole in ways that are unlike a lot of aerial U.S. golf. (One of my favorite shots ever was a 6I I hit to The Road Hole that flew about 90 yards and bounced and rolled the other 90.) I liked that the fairways were wide, but there were clearly better sides to play from (I just wish so many of them weren't from the left).

I enjoyed everything about the day. The clubhouse was perfect. The weather was perfect. We played in about 3:30 (despite two players in our group, well, they looked for a lot of balls, let's put it that way).

I posted in the other topic about the 14th and 15th, so I'm hoping we can talk about some of the other holes in this topic.

Some photos (and a little bit of commentary):

Waiting outside the club at 7:15 or so in the morning.

The view out the large windows of the small eating area of the finishing hole, a par four.

The second hole, one of many right-to-left holes.

The "meh" third. It's pretty to look at, but it felt like a somewhat boring hole to play. Bunt it out there, hit a wedge to the proper section of the green (lots of motion on this green).

The "first and a half" shot to the sixth. I didn't know how much this hole narrowed, and my ball bounded into the small bunker left. Fortunately I was able to chip out onto the green from there. A good hole, which requires a very good second shot. Not many par fives are "second shot holes" but I feel this one is - how much (with a 3W or hybrid) do you really want to push toward the green?

The bunker guarding the inside of the turn on the 8th hole. I hit an "okay" drive, but had 205 yards or so to the pin toward the back of a very deep green. I hit about a 50-yard draw to the left fringe, pin-high. One of the cooler shots I have played in awhile, and I like that Coore and Crenshaw asked me to hit it.

The second shot on the loooooong 10th. I liked this hole a lot - it gives you a chance to let the shaft out, and is a true three-shot par five, where most players will still not even have a wedge in for their third. I thought the landing area for the second shot was a bit generous - I had no problems hitting a 3W over/left of the "nose" bunker out there.

The 12th. I'd have loved to see a bit more of the green contours here… though now that I have played it once, at least I'd know on return trips how severe the back-to-front slope is.

14 from the tee. 60 yards wide, and 300 yards or so gently uphill.

The ideal spot is a few yards ahead of where I was standing in this photo.

I over-drew my tee shot but had a perfectly decent shot from left of 14. I'm convinced the play here is to get the ball as close as you can. There are strokes to be saved, and laying up is a wimp's play on this hole.🙂 My group had a long conversation about this hole, and everyone hit a different club.

The tee shot on the 15th. I played at the left-hand bunker with a slight cut.

And I was rewarded with a look at most of the green from only 80 yards out. I used the slope left to funnel the ball down onto the green for about a 12-foot birdie putt (it lipped out).

The second shot to the 500-yard par-five 17th plays about 50 yards uphill. I had 216 yards or so to the flag…

…and I hit a pretty good shot from there. (The eagle putt stayed a bit more right than I'd read. Bummer, a tap-in birdie.)

The clubhouse/pro shop/grill room as seen near the back of the 18th green. All you need. Perfect.

[klineka]

Prompted from a question from @iacas

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Really like Dormie Club. 

What'd you think of 14 and 15?

#14 - A short par 4 that is right around 300 yds from the Black/Blue tees and around 265-275 from the White tees. 

The fairway is generous to the right, and the fairway slopes left to right. There's not much room to miss left. Only one bunker which is front right of the green, but does have a pretty high lip to get over if you find yourself in it.

 

#15 -  A 360-380 yd par 4 from the Blue/Black tees that has a forced carry ranging from ~185-240+ yds depending on how much you want to take on. Fairway slopes from left to right as well. The left bunkers might be in play for some longer hitters, I think they are in the 290+ range, although since the fairway is sloping left to right, it does rise uphill as you approach those bunkers. Don't miss right with your approach shot into the green as there is a pretty big drop off down to a bunker on the right and a bunker behind the green. One thing to note, if you do hit driver, it is very easy to run through the fairway and into the waste bunkers if you pull/draw a drive too far left. A drive of only 230yds can go through the fairway and reach the waste area as my friend found out when he played this hole.

 

 

My thoughts: I really really liked 14. I hit driver, although I could have hit something as short as a 7 iron off the tee and still had a wedge into the green. Plenty of different options.

I aimed up the left edge of the fairway, but my drive sliced a bit and ended up towards the bottom of the hill to the right of the green, which left me an uphill pitch of ~40yds to the green. 

I executed the next two pitch shots poorly and finally managed to get on the green with my 3rd chip and tapped it in for my 6. So yes I did double it, but it wasn't because I "went for it" with driver that directly resulted in the double bogey, it was multiple poor pitches/chips in a row. I was hitting driver really really well that day, so if I had to play it again that day, since it was just a fun round with no money on the line or anything, I'd probably hit driver again. If driver wasnt working, or if it was a more serious match and I wanted to play a bit more conservative, I'd probably hit a 3 or 4 iron out to 200-220 which would be short of the bunker and leave myself a SW or LW left for my second shot.

#15 was also another solid golf hole. I aimed left of the bunkers with my tee shot, giving myself some room since I typically fade my driver, but hit my worst drive of the day that sliced a good 40+ yards into the trees on the right. Reloaded and hit a better drive that cleared the ravine by probably 5 yards, which left me a PW in. Got it on the green, two putted for my 6. If I played this hole again, I wouldn't change anything of how I played it, just a poorly executed first swing and a bad hole to have a nasty slice on. 

 

For those of you that have played these (or other unique holes at Dormie Club) what are your thoughts and how did you play them? If you haven't played Dormie club, how do you think you would play these?

Edited November 19, 2018 by klineka

[iacas]

14 and 15 are much discussed at GCA. I like them both - quite a bit - but think that the "strategy" on both holes is over-rated. There's really only one answer. Yes, you have a lot of options, but one option is clearly the best.

[klineka]

46 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yes, you have a lot of options, but one option is clearly the best.

Glad I chose the right option on 14 then even though the short game let me down. That at least gives me some confidence in my strategy/thought process.

I never thought of hitting anything other than driver on 15, but I'm also not a super long driver either.

I thought 13 was quite boring. Very straight forward, slightly up hill, no bunkers, quite wide fairway, just hit driver as far as you can, then a mid iron/wedge into the green which doesnt have trouble around it. I think there were some undulations on the left as you approached the green but just a rather ho-hum hole IMO. 

Erik, what did you like about 16? Seemed like a pretty straightforward par 3 to me, nothing too special. It's 160-198 depending on the tees, but seemed like the play was just hit your yardage with an iron to the middle of the green and hope it goes straight or else you're in a bunker. I don't necessarily think I disliked it, but I dont think it was a hole I would want to play over and over.

[iacas]

38 minutes ago, klineka said:

Erik, what did you like about 16? Seemed like a pretty straightforward par 3 to me, nothing too special. It's 160-198 depending on the tees, but seemed like the play was just hit your yardage with an iron to the middle of the green and hope it goes straight or else you're in a bunker. I don't necessarily think I disliked it, but I dont think it was a hole I would want to play over and over.

Did I say I liked much about it?

Par threes are often pretty non-strategic. Hit the green.

[klineka]

47 minutes ago, iacas said:

Did I say I liked much about it?

Par threes are often pretty non-strategic. Hit the green.

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Of the holes there, I really thought 14 stood out, along with 4, 8, 10, 16, and 17. I would rank 3 and 12 as the holes I liked the least.

It was part of your original post, I was just curious what you liked about 16 or I guess what made it stand out in your opinion.

 

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, klineka said:

It was part of your original post, I was just curious what you liked about 16 or I guess what made it stand out in your opinion.

It stood out to me as a solid par three. I like square-ish type greens, and the wind was interesting on this tee shot, and it struck me as entirely fair yet attractive: the right length to require a good shot. I put it in the left bunker because the wind didn't do what I thought, but made par IIRC.

Yeah…

https://www.gamegolf.com/player/iacas/round/1900019?hole_id=35348512

[GolfLug]

I can try to give my 'Trip Advisor' type perspective unlike course design and architecture type write up like @iacas

I sorta liked Dormie, but the combination of length (6,700 yards) and and curvy hilly layout, strangish bunker placement on some holes, some blind tee shots with sides curving away from the middle make it a bit intimidating and certainly made it difficult. Spent too much time recovering to truly enjoy the course fully. I think I should have played one tee set up. I blame my partners pressuring me into playing back with them.. :-)).

My impression of the course was it is a tee shot course. Gotta get on the proper side or the fairway on most holes (or in my case anywhere on the fairway..) to really have a legit approach to the green, ya know, to play the course like the design intends it to be played. Anything close to the edges will run through waste areas into recovery-only areas.  

The greens were the best part I think. Fair speed, reasonably playable undulations, lots of options around the greens and you could definitely run up the ball most times around from the green. 

Holes I did not like -

Hole 3 - Just weird. Not sure what the purpose of the bunker complex on the right is. May be it is meant to be risk reward for anyone long enough to drive the hole. 

Hole 10 - LONG. Like Par 7 long. I survived. This would be on the top of my list of 'holes I am most like to make an 8' (I did..). If the length is not bad enough, the nose bunker on the layup is a byoot. I would have had to hit a career drive (260+) just to try to hit over it just to have an 8 iron or something left. If not (I did not), just layup short or wide right (maybe left of it, but just too tight to try) and then have a super long 3rd shot in to the green. It took me 6 shots to get to the green but admittedly I lost two shots on recovery from a pushed drive. Even if I had stayed on short grass, I think still would have taken me 4 shots to get on. Whatever..:-)). 

Holes I 'liked':

Hole 1 - Straight forward opener. Just the way I like it.  

Hole 5- Loong swooping draw hole where I finally got a good drive in. 

Hole 6 - Reasonable par 5. The hole seems like the entire tree frame narrows up as you get closer to the green.

Hole 8 - This could be a love it or hate it hole depending on where you drive. I could have played the approach better (one of the few holes where I had a clean look at the hole), but a good hole. 

Hole 14-18 - I felt the course came alive in this set of holes, or may be it finally warmed up enough (it was 50s when we teed off).

15th is def my favorite. I wish the ball had not got hung up on the left dune high on my approach wedge and fed into the green like I intended it to. Was not to be but I thought very fair and fun hole. 

17 plays longer than the yardage as it is uphill and is as tight as it seems. Demanding and may be a bit contrived but I think it is a very unique hole.  

The bunkering was a bit strange on 18 as the complex cuts off the fairway a bit too early. Not that it mattered to me as I took the scenic route via the wilderness out to the right, but yeah.  

I will say again that you really have to be in play off the tee with some length to appreciate this course more. You just can't catch your breath otherwise.

Hopefully I can get out there again at some point and I am certain this time it will be much better. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by GolfLug

[HJJ003]

On 11/19/2018 at 11:31 AM, klineka said:

If you haven't played Dormie club, how do you think you would play these?

Love these types of questions so thanks for asking. My driver distance (235) would likely have me playing the whites and not the blues (unless course is wide freaking open 6500 yds tends to feel long to me). My strategy would be as follows; 

#14: Driver down the left half of the fairway. I don't really see another really valid option unless someone just cant hit a driver that day for some reason. Miss either direction is recoverable (though miss right is more challenging). 

#15: From whites this would actually be another short par 4, and I would be tempted to hit driver. However, I think a mid iron would be the smartest play as it would likely still give me wedge into green and eliminate most of the shades in my egg. From the blues like you played, I would hit driver and wouldn't care too much if I ran into the waste bunker on the other side, because dropping down to a 3 wood would bring the hazard into play if I didn't hit a shot solidly. 

[klineka]

On 11/23/2018 at 10:14 PM, HJJ003 said:

Love these types of questions so thanks for asking. My driver distance (235) would likely have me playing the whites and not the blues (unless course is wide freaking open 6500 yds tends to feel long to me). 

They have a Blue/White Combo tees where the scorecard dictates which set of tees you play for each hole. It comes out to ~6300 yds and is like a 71/127 which was perfect for myself and my friend when we played.

It's like 6 holes from the blue tees (including #15) and then the remaining 12 from the whites.