Overrated/Underrated (Golf) Topic

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

Overrated. The best golfers stick to their stock shots, generally speaking. I think that changing the trajectory is fine, but most golfers do that accidentally.

Find your one stock shot and stick with it, and make that one shot more and more consistent.

[klineka]

4 minutes ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

Overrated, especially in the shot shape aspect. You can be a very very good player and play with one main shot shape.

As was mentioned in the "Shaping the Ball" thread in the Swing Thoughts section of the site,

On 8/14/2012 at 2:04 PM, iacas said:

A Quick Word on Shaping the Ball

95% of the shots a pro plays (Tiger Woods may be one of a group of very small exceptions, and even he isn't as different as many think) are their stock shot. They don't curve much, but if a player is a drawer of the golf ball, 95% of their shots draw. It's the most reliable, dependable way to play - with a pattern.

Kenny Perry (a pronounced drawer) was playing at Doral a few years ago and someone asked him what he does with a pin on the right side of the green. He said he aimed at the flag and if his ball didn't draw, he got lucky, but otherwise he was content to have a 25-footer for birdie.

Then the person asked him what he did when the pin was on the left side of the green. "I make birdie" he said. 🙂

You'll get better, faster if you develop a pattern. Shaping the ball is over-rated - not even the pros do it all that often. Shaping the ball can get you out of trouble. It can be a good shot when the ball needs to be worked around an obstacle (reaching a par five in two, the tee shot on a dogleg, etc.). But if you've got a look at the flag, take the Kenny Perry approach: aim for your shot cone and play your pattern.

I see value in being able to alter trajectory and spin, but IMO they're not super important for the majority of golfers to worry about, so I dont think they can really be considered underrated

[saevel25]

16 minutes ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

Shape - Overrated.
Trajectory - Slightly Underrated
Spin - Slightly Underrated

Golfers would benefit much more from playing one shot shape. How much extra practice will you need to become accurate in hitting the ball with an opposite shot shape? If I hit 10,000 shots practicing a draw, I would be way more proficient then if I had to hit 5000 practicing a fade and 5000 practicing a draw.

I think being able to control the trajectory and spin is a much more useful technique. I am much more likely to run into the scenario where I need to control the trajectory and spin versus having to shape it a large amount opposite my normal shot pattern.

[Bucki1968]

29 minutes ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

I am going with overrated. I agree with finding your shot and sticking with it. I have a really hard time hitting a fade....so I don't do it.

[rehmwa]

50 minutes ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

In play - I think it's overrated, if someone is good enough, trusting a repeatable shot is pretty obvious.

In learning and practice - i think there is a lot to be gained with learning how to do these things (on purpose) and using that knowledge to improve your overall game.  Even if the end game is just having the skills from this to just tighten up the sigma on your 'stock shot'

practically - it's fun, not necessary, but fun.  For me the tradeoff is worth it.....for now.

(caviat - I can shape and up/deloft to a small extent and the lofting aspect seems actually useful, and the shaping seems fun.  I really have no idea about spin control which I think would be a series of fun lessons someday)

[GolfLug]

58 minutes ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

Overrated. I think 95 percent golf should be one shot with all full swings. 

Having said that I hit a great variety of full swing shots without intending to...lol!

[NM Golf]

2 hours ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

OVERRATED. The stock shot is where it's at 90% of the time. This crap about drawing it into a left pin and fading into a right pin is a bunch of malarky for all but a handful of extremely talented players. I am a plus handicap and I have never worked a ball into a pin placement in my life. I like to fade the ball, so if the pin's on the left I aim at it and hope for the best. The last thing I need to do is to try and manufacture some half-witted draw that I will inevitably pull and hit 5 yards left of the green and end up short sided and screwed. 

I am smart enough to know that my stock shot is going to produce the best results 99% of the time. So trying to do anything else, unless absolutely necessary, is not smart golf.

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by iacas
please follow the rules

[Big_in_Belgium]

2 hours ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

Overrated.
I always hit my stock shot (straight to baby draw) and only use (or try to use) a different shape when in trouble.

I've played with a lot of better players as me and almost none of them try to shape their flights unless in trouble.

[DeadMan]

3 hours ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

Overrated. You don't need to use anything but your stock shot unless you need to avoid some obstacle. The rest of the time, it's much better to hit your stock shot. Case in point: I spent some time over the summer working on a 5-10 yard baby fade that I could use when there's trouble on the left and my overdraw miss is dead. I have used it once during a round since I developed it. Nice to have in the bag when I absolutely need it, but not really necessary.

[CaseyD]

9 hours ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

Overrated. As a viewer it seems as though there are a lot of times the pros over analyze a shot trying to be too perfect and leave the shot hanging way out to the right or over cook a draw. I would say spin is the most important out of all mentioned. A golf ball is 1.68 inches. Even in the narrowest of fairways you should be able to hit whatever shape shot is your shot.

Edited December 18, 2018 by iacas
Please follow the rules and quote the topic.

[mdl]

22 hours ago, mdl said:

Overrated/Underrated #6: Hitting a variety of full swing shots (shape, trajectory, spin, etc.)

Not to reset the clock, but I figured I'd answer my own now

I knew shape variety would be considered over rated, and I agree. Sure, there are some hard dog legs left where I wish I could reliably switch mid-round to hit a single hard draw with my driver and shorten the hole a ton. But I can't, and agree it's overrated as an ability.  Better to become as consistent and accurate as you can with your best playable shape.

More interesting I think is trajectory and spin.  I don't play pro tournament setup type courses often enough that I need to worry often about reducing spin so as not to zip the ball back off the front. I'm not sure that's rated super highly, so not sure if it's overrated, but I don't think it's super important.

For the same reason, controlling trajectory in and of itself isn't super important for the courses I play either. But I've had a ton of success with learning to flight my short irons. Honestly that success is more about shortening and simplifying the swing and making it easier to control the club face, so the trajectory and spin change from that swing isn't really the point for me. But I'd say that's an underrated thing to learn.

[NM Golf]

Alright my turn!

Overrated/Underrated #7: Playing a premium urethane covered golf ball (Prov1, Chromesoft, etc)

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

Overrated/Underrated #7: Playing a premium urethane covered golf ball (Prov1, Chromesoft, etc)

Given that most golfers don't break 90, overrated.

But remove the italicized word above, which I take to mean the $45/dozen types of balls, and I'm going with ever so slightly underrated. Barely. With pro-level balls like the Snells being available for < $30, it's basically the same as playing an NXT Tour or something.

[klineka]

1 minute ago, NM Golf said:

Alright my turn!

Overrated/Underrated #7: Playing a premium urethane covered golf ball (Prov1, Chromesoft, etc)

 

I say overrated in terms of performance between balls within the premium segment, you'll get very similar results between prov1, chromesoft, tp5, snell mtb, etc.

I say underrated when comparing a premium ball to a rock hard low spin ball like a top flite or a noodle.

I dont have experience fitting amateurs for golf balls, but I remember that Mark Crossfield has talked about this in some of his videos on golf balls, from his experiences most amateurs need as much spin as they can get especially with irons, so it doesnt make sense to use low spin balls when amateurs already lack spin to begin with, and there are a number of factors on the course that can lower spin even more (water, rough, debris, etc) 

Obviously price is a factor here as well, since worse golfers will likely lose balls quicker than better players will, but there are cheaper options now for premium balls like the Snell MTB for under $30/ dozen it doesnt really make sense IMO for anyone who cares about their score and isn't on the strictest of budgets not to be playing some form of a premium ball, yet the fact that plenty of people still play with cheaper non premium balls is what makes me think it is underrated by most amateur golfers

[mz975d]

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

Alright my turn!

Overrated/Underrated #7: Playing a premium urethane covered golf ball (Prov1, Chromesoft, etc)

 

overrated in the sense that I don't think there is any reason for a weekend golfer or a higher handicapper to play a premium ball. The price isn't worth it if they can't utilize the properties of the ball.    I think the tier below premium is just fine.  NXT tour is a great ball.  also the bridgestone e6.  Both are good.

 

54 minutes ago, klineka said:

I say overrated in terms of performance between balls within the premium segment, you'll get very similar results between prov1, chromesoft, tp5, snell mtb, etc.

I say underrated when comparing a premium ball to a rock hard low spin ball like a top flite or a noodle.

 

Nicely said.     

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

Overrated/Underrated #7: Playing a premium urethane covered golf ball (Prov1, Chromesoft, etc)

Overrated if you pay full price. I've found ProV1 and ProV1x on Craigslist from people who just don't want them for $30 a dozen. I play Snell MTB Black now, which are really close the ProV1x and get them for less than $30. 

In terms of long game off the tee, I don't think it matters that much and neither do Snell or Titleist. The % change in distance is almost negligible. But for approach shots and short game, I think they do make a difference, especially holding greens. I may not hit the green with a 6 iron every time, but when I do, I want it to stop on the green.

[DeadMan]

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

Overrated/Underrated #7: Playing a premium urethane covered golf ball (Prov1, Chromesoft, etc)

I tend to agree with @iacas. I'm reading premium to read the most expensive urethane balls, and that's definitely overrated for golfers. Snell and others make urethane covered golf balls that perform just as well as a Pro V1 for $20 a dozen less. Almost every golfer will not notice a difference.

Going to a urethane-covered from a surlyn-covered ball might be a bit underrated. The stopping power is pretty useful for a lot of golfers. Not worth an extra $20 a dozen for most golfers, but I'd imagine upgrading would help most golfers a bit.

Edited December 19, 2018 by DeadMan

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

Alright my turn!

Overrated/Underrated #7: Playing a premium urethane covered golf ball (Prov1, Chromesoft, etc)

 

IMO spending $45 on a dozen cant be justified anymore at ANY level for tangible reasons. 

Easily Overrated for high handicappers. They would do just fine playing softer 2/3 layer balls if you really want to 'feel' like you are playing a premium ball. Topflite Gamer/Wilson 50-50, etc, type balls are just fine. 

Overrated for avid golfers who break 90s and even 80s as well - You can spend about or below $30/dozen, get urethane cover and sufficient feel/flight for 99% of avid golfers.

Maybe there has a very small minority who can justify a Pro V1 over a Snell MTB for performance reasons, but I don't know them. But hey, you have to be comfortable what you play with and not all reasons have to tangible.

I spend way below $30/dozen for a 3 layer ball and get everything I need and want from it.