Overrated/Underrated (Golf) Topic

[ChetlovesMer]

18 minutes ago, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

TV announcers always seem to make a big deal about whether the player is above or below the hole with their approach shot. 

I know LSW talks about this a bit but curious to hear if you think it is over or underrated by most golfers.

Overrated.

I'm not saying that an uphill 5 footer doesn't seem easier than an downhill 5 footer. It does. 

What I'm saying is I'd rather be really close to the hole on either the uphill or the downhill side. I'd also like to have my chip shot have a chance at going in. I've seen guys chip on and leave themselves 12 feet short just to insure an uphill putt. Unless you are playing some form of "Bingo Bango Bongo" hit it as close to the hole as you can. 

[boogielicious]

27 minutes ago, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

 

Overrated. Closer to the hole is always better.

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Overrated. Closer to the hole is always better.

I'll take an uphill 5-footer over a downhill, slick, four footer.  On the downhill putt your ball is at the mercy of any imperfections on the green. On the uphill putt you just bang it through that stuff.

[boogielicious]

2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I'll take an uphill 5-footer over a downhill, slick, four footer.  On the downhill putt your ball is at the mercy of any imperfections on the green. On the uphill putt you just bang it through that stuff.

Would you take a 10 foot uphill over a 5 foot downhill? I wouldn't. PGA make % is way better for shorter putts regardless of slope.

[DaveP043]

45 minutes ago, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

In my opinion, it is overrated.  Very few of us ever play greens that are so fast that a downhill putt is excessively difficult.  That doesn't hold true in every circumstance, particularly on multi-tier greens with sharp slopes separating the tiers, but those greens are relatively rare.

[phillyk]

40 minutes ago, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

I think most people hear that leaving it below the hole is better.  Certainly for chipping, the goal is to get the ball as close to the hole as possible regardless of orientation, so I'd say this is overrated.  Sure, I'd rather have a 5ft uphill putt than a 5ft down hill putt.  But I think people put too much weight on leaving it below the hole, then try to not get it as close as possible but in the right spot below the hole, and now they have a longer putt than if they were a bit more aggressive at putting it closer.

[NJpatbee]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

 

Underrated for me.  Of course I would take a 2 foot downhill putt over a 10 foot uphill putt, but at my 16 HCP level most of my approach shots leave me over 10 foot from the pin.   A couple of the courses I play when the conditions are dry have a good amount of speed and they are not like a tilted pool table but more like a potato chip,   Putting uphill being more aggressive I typically get the ball much closer than putting downhill on these greens.  For slower greens it is insignificant but on faster contoured greens it matters for me.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

 

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

 

I think the importance is where it should be. Most amateurs out there probably aren’t so accurate to be considering this. They’re just aiming for the middle of the green yes? I can’t imagine why anyone would prefer a downhill putt to an uphill unless it’s real long and speed is a total guess so they’re just gonna play the slope and hope their line is good. I’m an awful putter so I may be way off. 

[gbogey]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

Underrated but highly dependent on the course and/or green speeds.  At my home course in NJ and at one course I play here a lot I have more confidence with a 10 foot uphill putt than a 5 foot downhill.  Not sure that I really make more 10 footers uphill, but I would have more confidence that I would do so.  The slopes (NJ) and the speeds (TN) are that severe.  It got so bad in NJ that I finally realized that I was missing greens out of FOBAH - "fear of being above hole."  I had to adjust and realize that on the green above was better than missing short, and to realize that the goal for those birdie putts will be to lag, not make.

7 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I think the importance is where it should be. Most amateurs out there probably aren’t so accurate to be considering this. They’re just aiming for the middle of the green yes? 

I tend to agree on approach shots.  But I know that I should place more consideration on where a chip / pitch might miss.

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

Overrated. Unless you are playing terribly fast greens (IDK, stimping over 11) its a no brainer - just get close. Of course nobody would argue given small difference in length uphill always better, but leaving a downhill putt is not a gasp inducing death sentence for most of us. 

 

[dennyjones]

9 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

This!   Overrated..

9 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

 

I'm not saying that an uphill 5 footer doesn't seem easier than an downhill 5 footer. It does. 

What I'm saying is I'd rather be really close to the hole on either the uphill or the downhill side. I'd also like to have my chip shot have a chance at going in. I've seen guys chip on and leave themselves 12 feet short just to insure an uphill putt. Unless you are playing some form of "Bingo Bango Bongo" hit it as close to the hole as you can. 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 2/21/2019 at 9:09 AM, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

TV announcers always seem to make a big deal about whether the player is above or below the hole with their approach shot. 

I know LSW talks about this a bit but curious to hear if you think it is over or underrated by most golfers.

 

On 2/21/2019 at 9:55 AM, DaveP043 said:

In my opinion, it is overrated.  Very few of us ever play greens that are so fast that a downhill putt is excessively difficult.  That doesn't hold true in every circumstance, particularly on multi-tier greens with sharp slopes separating the tiers, but those greens are relatively rare.

Yes but, occasionally we do. I played in a local tourney last year where the entire field plays the first round on a 36 hole public course that was designed by Donald Ross in the 1920's and 30's. Despite the cutting and rolling, the greens putted as slow as usual. The next day the field gets split up among local country clubs, and my age group got to play Youngstown CC, oddly enough also designed by Donald Ross. 

Those greens were like putting on glass! I was about 30' above the hole on one green, gave it a tap, and watched it run 20' past the hole and off the front of the green! Maybe it was the contrast in speeds that tripped me up. 

I've run into this several times, usually playing high end courses that I usually don't. Like Fowler's Mill, a Pete Dye gem just east of Cleveland, Windmill Lakes, a course with fast greens about 5 times the size of my house! Also, Hawthorne Valley, Tanglewood National, etc. 

Of course, the entire argument may be academic. It's not like my iron play is so accurate anymore, that I can pick and choose where on the green I will land my ball! 

[sjduffers]

On 2/21/2019 at 6:09 AM, klineka said:

Overrated/Underrated #18: The importance (or lack of importance) of leaving yourself "below the hole" on approach shots/chips.

 

In general I would say overrated. Closer to the hole is the general determining factor for success in putting.

But... and there is a big but here, it really depends on the given green and the hole location on the green. There are some greens and pin placements were it definitely is better to be 10 ft away with an uphill putt than 5 ft away with a downhill one, especially when the greens are slick. IMHO.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, sjduffers said:

But... and there is a big but here, it really depends on the given green and the hole location on the green. There are some greens and pin placements were it definitely is better to be 10 ft away with an uphill putt than 5 ft away with a downhill one, especially when the greens are slick. IMHO.

Five feet? Virtually never the case. No.

[sjduffers]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

Five feet? Virtually never the case. No.

In a perfect world, the ball could/should never stop there, and it would instead roll below the hole, but I have seen it happen on several greens were I play regularly, and virtually any putt above the hole hit with a little tap either has to go in the hole or you are left with twice the distance (but below the hole), so you might as well start there! 

[Pretzel]

8 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

In a perfect world, the ball could/should never stop there, and it would instead roll below the hole, but I have seen it happen on several greens were I play regularly, and virtually any putt above the hole hit with a little tap either has to go in the hole or you are left with twice the distance (but below the hole), so you might as well start there! 

The only greens where I would say 5 feet above is worse than 10 feet below is if it's a tiered green and you're on a tier above the hole right near to where the hole itself was cut.

[Vinsk]

22 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

In a perfect world, the ball could/should never stop there, and it would instead roll below the hole, but I have seen it happen on several greens were I play regularly, and virtually any putt above the hole hit with a little tap either has to go in the hole or you are left with twice the distance (but below the hole), so you might as well start there! 

Sounds like the ball would have to be on the fringe or embedded for this to occur. If the slope is severe enough that a tap would roll it by that much ...then pretty unusual to have the ball land there or roll there and hold its position.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Sounds like the ball would have to be on the fringe or embedded for this to occur. If the slope is severe enough that a tap would roll it by that much ...then pretty unusual to have the ball land there or roll there and hold its position.

Right. In other words, should virtually never be the case that above the hole five feet is worse than ten feet below.

I can think of one green I've played in my life where that's true.