2019 Masters Tournament

[Bucki1968]

57 minutes ago, klineka said:

Or the other 75-100+ golfers on this planet that are capable of beating him

I agree with this. I think he's got tougher competition now than he did in the early 2000's. As a matter of fact ,even though he has won a Bethpage, I don't think it will set up as well for him. He knows Augusta maybe better than anyone in the tournament so obviously that helped. I'm not sure he should be the favorite at Pebble Beach either. Phil plays well there and so does D.J. and it's a U.S. Open so Brooks will show up. I'm not trying to take anything away from yesterday, I'm just not convinced he's back to being a dominate player. Hell I was rooting hard for him yesterday and have been a big fan for years. I'm just not going to jump on the "he's gonna beat Jack's 18 major" bandwagon just yet. 

[gatorMD]

Tiger moves to 6 inthe OWGR.  I wonder what his next major odds are?

[ChrisP]

3 minutes ago, gatorMD said:

Tiger moves to 6 inthe OWGR.  I wonder what his next major odds are?

7-1 according to Bovada. He’s back to being the betting favorite. He’s also 7-1 at Pebble.

[Nutsmacker]

50 minutes ago, klineka said:

 

 

I guess you are missing my point.  It doesn't matter.  It seems like you are arguing that its the other golfers that are going to stop him from winning more.  My point is that if he wants it; he will get it.  So, its not that he is being held back by himself...it is that if he wants it bad enough I don't doubt that he will get it.  But who knows?  Maybe he is content with the one major victory and he will go back to running his restaurant...which I seriously doubt.  

[gatorMD]

Nobody is going to stop TW.  He just won the Masters at age 43 with his B+ game against a stacked leaderboard.  I wonder how many tourneys he plays this year and would not be surprised by a multiple major year!

[rehmwa]

I was just GLUED to the set on Sunday and Saturday.  This was really fun to watch.  It seems Molinari had a great Saturday, but Sunday was missing and scrambling - it was pretty clear he'd start missing before the end - no matter how good you are, how long can you keep recovering before something slips - he was off from the start and still carried his tournament like a champ - Molinari remains the 'real thing'. 

Brooks and Tony were the ones to watch, Brooks especially and that was clear before halfway.  He'll have that putt on 18 on his mind for a long time. 

Tiger's play - you could just see the energy building and him keeping it in check.  He really did what was needed and missed smart and avoided problem spots.  Smart golf.  If you think about those 3 poorly missed opportunties on Thursday, and like 3 more on Friday, I think the potential to just be dominant is still there and ready to shine (imagine he cashed those in and won by 4 or 7).  Then with majors since the surgery - In it tight for what?  3 of the last 4 majors and wins one?  He's not done, not by a long shot.

I'm still recalling the interview a year or two ago where his biggest concern was the pain and not even being able to play with his kids (he didn't even mention golf).  This is a huge turnaround story (physically, mentally, characterwise, etc).  Only the worst of people won't acknowledge the redemption theme throughout this.

Edited April 15, 2019 by rehmwa

[Groucho Valentine]

Tiger deserved to win yesterday and its great for the game to get him back winning major tournaments again. But i have this overarching feeling that he backed up into this win. Which is fine. A win is a win. But i feel like if Molinari just hits those two short irons on the green on 12 and 15 he wins by at least two strokes. 

But make no doubt about it, the real star of the masters is Fred Ridleys hair. 

[Bucki1968]

1 minute ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Tiger deserved to win yesterday and its great for the game to get him back winning major tournaments again. But i have this overarching feeling that he backed up into this win. Which is fine. A win is a win. But i feel like if Molinari just hits those two short irons on the green on 12 and 15 he wins by at least two strokes. 

But make no doubt about it, the real star of the masters is Fred Ridleys hair. 

I agree 100%. D.J. hit an awful putt on 18 (which he does often) and Brooks hit two awful putts on 17 and 18. Tiger needed help at the turn and he got it. Disclaimer: I'm not bashing him but he didn't shoot 64 and run away with it. He played smart and waited for everyone else to make a mistake. Just like Jack used to.

[rehmwa]

11 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

But i feel like if Molinari just hits those two short irons on the green on 12 and 15 he wins by at least two strokes.

But he didn't stay out of the water.....If Tiger had made 3 putts on Thursday, if Brooks made that putt, if Tony could have closed the last round better, if if if if

Everyone had their 'woulda coulda' I can name 6 strokes just on Tiger Thursday and Friday.   Not fair to just mention the ones on Sunday - every player has strokes they should have gotten back......

M was scrambling to recover Sunday hole after hole after hole.  You can't maintain that.  he was bound to fall down at some point.  He was having an off day and still contended for most of the day - that's how good he is.  he's amazing.

Brooks and Shafeffeffeleffele were the true threats and that was close.

As you note, I don't doubt that Tiger saw the state of Molinari's game and realized, in at least the case of this guy, he just needed to stay patient.

Edited April 15, 2019 by rehmwa

[Groucho Valentine]

5 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

I agree 100%. D.J. hit an awful putt on 18 (which he does often) and Brooks hit two awful putts on 17 and 18. Tiger needed help at the turn and he got it. Disclaimer: I'm not bashing him but he didn't shoot 64 and run away with it. He played smart and waited for everyone else to make a mistake. Just like Jack used to.

Agreed. I was really surprised Brooks missed that putt on 18. But thats the way it is sometimes. 

[onthehunt526]

9 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

But he didn't stay out of the water.....If Tiger had made 3 putts on Thursday, if Brooks made that putt, if Tony could have closed the last round better, if if if if

Everyone had their 'woulda coulda' I can name 6 strokes just on Tiger Thursday and Friday.   Not fair to just mention the ones on Sunday - every player has strokes they should have gotten back......

M was scrambling to recover Sunday hole after hole after hole.  You can't maintain that.  he was bound to fall down at some point.  He was having an off day and still contended for most of the day - that's how good he is.  he's amazing.

Brooks and Shafeffeffeleffele were the true threats and that was close.

As you note, I don't doubt that Tiger saw the state of Molinari's game and realized, in at least the case of this guy, he just needed to stay patient.

Tiger also had at least three putts he had no business making on Friday. The bomb at 9 the 25-footer on 14 and the 30-footer on 15. He bogeyed 8 on Friday. So what he played the 72-hole in one less shot than everyone else. 

Frankie’s shot in the water on 12 wasn’t a bad swing, it just got smacked by the wind, as did Finau’s. Frankie’s third shot on 15 was poor contact, but it did clip the pine tree in front of him, he probably at least clears the penalty area IF he misses the tree.

Yes DJ hit a lousy putt on 18 and Brooks had 2 weak efforts on 17 and 18. But Tiger made 4 bogeys on Sunday and still won.

[klineka]

49 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

It seems like you are arguing that its the other golfers that are going to stop him from winning more.  

Yes that's absolutely what I'm arguing because I believe it. He didn't run away with this tournament, he played solid and other players made mistakes. He wasnt leaps and bounds better than the field this week.

The fields he is playing now are deeper and stronger than any fields he has played back in his prime so the other golfers now will absolutely be what will stop him from winning more. (Assuming he stays healthy of course)

54 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

My point is that if he wants it; he will get it. 

That's not how golf (or any sport) works. For all we know, one of the amateurs could have "wanted it" more than Tiger or anyone else in the field this past week, but they didnt win. Just "wanting it" doesn't mean it will happen.

[rehmwa]

15 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Tiger also had at least three putts he had no business making on Friday. The bomb at 9 the 25-footer on 14 and the 30-footer on 15. He bogeyed 8 on Friday. So what he played the 72-hole in one less shot than everyone else.

yep - all great points and kind of where I was going.  The 'woulda coulda' arguments are pointless as the give and take of the game balances out.  I bet that 60 players had a few shots they were lucky they made, and also a few they should have made.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Tiger deserved to win yesterday and its great for the game to get him back winning major tournaments again. But i have this overarching feeling that he backed up into this win. Which is fine. A win is a win. But i feel like if Molinari just hits those two short irons on the green on 12 and 15 he wins by at least two strokes. 

But make no doubt about it, the real star of the masters is Fred Ridleys hair. 

Tiger didn't back into the win, and it strikes me as ridiculous to say it:

• He was in the final group.
• He was T2 going into the last round.
• He played every nine holes under par for the week - eight times.
• He shot 70 on a day when the field averaged 71.5.
• The low score for the day was only 67.
• He passed ONE player, and did so by making birdies.

Backing into a major is what Rickie Fowler does for his top five finishes. He's never near the lead, but plays well on Sunday from far enough back that he has no real pressure and thus does "okay."

1 hour ago, Nutsmacker said:

My point is that if he wants it; he will get it.  So, its not that he is being held back by himself...it is that if he wants it bad enough I don't doubt that he will get it.

Even in his prime when he wanted things the most he didn't win other majors, and the players now are slightly better than even in 2000-01.

It's not entirely dependent on "if he wants it bad enough."

It's not even mostly dependent on that.

Borrowed from elsewhere re: Tiger "backing into" his win: DJ went four under on the last six holes. Koepka, Finau, Jason Day and Webb Simpson, all finishing within two shots of Woods, were three under on the same stretch. Schauffele shot a back nine 33. As for Woods not having to anything to stay ahead, well, I guess "nothing" to you means birdieing three of the next four holes after getting into a share of the lead, including a perfectly executed near-ace. Would you have reacted the same way had, say, Jordan Spieth, Rickie Fowler or Justin Thomas won, hitting exactly the same shots that Woods did? I doubt it.

[Beastie]

7 hours ago, Apoc81 said:

Man, he’ll only be 4. I’m not taking a chance at him getting a ball in the head

Fair enough, I never really thought it was a big risk. I hope he loves the golf!

[Nutsmacker]

Well, the beauty of it all is that we will find out soon enough if he catches Jack.  Personally, I think he will do it.  

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

Well, the beauty of it all is that we will find out soon enough if he catches Jack.  Personally, I think he will do it.  

He’s passed Jack IMO. And did awhile ago.

[Bo the Golfer]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

He’s passed Jack IMO. And did awhile ago.

I get what you're saying and agree in a lot of ways but 18 will always be more than 15