Faksakes' Experiment

[boogielicious]

Just now, Faksakes said:

I am not. I can't stand when people do that and I would not be one of them. I just don't want to keep going back and forth with him. 

He is the owner of the site and one of the best instructors in the country. You basically said he was a lousy instructor. He is giving you good information about how a good instructor does their job. He asked you questions about your so called view point and you refused to answer. Now you play the victim card. Classic trolling. 

[Piz]

Just now, Faksakes said:

It will prove something to me. If I can get better than I was right handed I'll have proved it to myself. Maybe I can get much better, be more consistent and have more fun. The idea was to post about my outlandish ideas and training and have some fun. And that's all I want to do. 

Then do that.  I, for one, would be interested in both your thoughts and your progress.  And I am guessing I am not alone.  What I do not understand is why this conversation has morphed into an argument about the value of instruction in general.  Most people have a positive experience with instruction.  You have not.  I'm sorry that is the case.  Be that as it may...let's move on.  Report what you are doing, what you are thinking, and how things are going.  I am looking forward to hearing something else.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Piz said:

Then do that.  I, for one, would be interested in both your thoughts and your progress.  And I am guessing I am not alone.  What I do not understand is why this conversation has morphed into an argument about the value of instruction in general.  Most people have a positive experience with instruction.  You have not.  I'm sorry that is the case.  Be that as it may...let's move on.  Report what you are doing, what you are thinking, and how things are going.  I am looking forward to hearing something else.

He's welcome to resume doing that as soon as he answers a very simple question.

[Faksakes]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

Since you seem to have forgotten:

There you go.

You've been espousing all of these theories, telling me that I'm destroying my students' games… etc. Answer the question. It's awfully simple. Doesn't even involve correcting a dynamic swing flaw.

I would use my hands to show him how to stand as a starting point and I would really try and get him to relax. I think when you have the right feel, then everything takes care of itself. A swing won't feel right if your setup is wrong. I'd tell him to experiment with his eyes closed. Take some swings and try different things. Change your setup to make that swing feel good. Move your feet around, try standing taller or more bent over. Now what feels the most effortless and powerful? Ok now take a few more like that. Ok now open your eyes and take a swing at this ball. We don't care where the ball goes, just make that swing.

That's about how I'd go about it. 

 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Faksakes said:

I would use my hands to show him how to stand as a starting point and I would really try and get him to relax. I think when you have the right feel, then everything takes care of itself.

And how's he supposed to know how to get into that position again in a day. A week. A month? His feels will change.

1 minute ago, Faksakes said:

A swing won't feel right if your setup is wrong.

I could set up in all sorts of weird, unusual, "wrong" ways and hit the ball better than you ever did. Dustin Johnson could start his swing from the top with his hands two inches apart on the club and still hit it better than me. Setup is over-rated.

1 minute ago, Faksakes said:

I'd tell him to experiment with his eyes closed. Take some swings and try different things. Change your setup to make that swing feel good.

Golfers often don't have a clue what a "good" swing is. That's why most golfers suck - what feels "good" to them is bad.

1 minute ago, Faksakes said:

Now what feels the most effortless and powerful?

🤦‍♂️

1 minute ago, Faksakes said:

That's about how I'd go about it.

That answer was worse than I was even imagining. I rest my case.

[Phil McGleno]

16 minutes ago, Faksakes said:

I would use my hands to show him how to stand as a starting point and I would really try and get him to relax. I think when you have the right feel, then everything takes care of itself. A swing won't feel right if your setup is wrong. I'd tell him to experiment with his eyes closed. Take some swings and try different things. Change your setup to make that swing feel good. Move your feet around, try standing taller or more bent over. Now what feels the most effortless and powerful? Ok now take a few more like that. Ok now open your eyes and take a swing at this ball. We don't care where the ball goes, just make that swing.

Oh my that is your answer?-That is how you think people should learn how to play good golf? I am laughing hard enough that my dear wife had to ask what was so funny.

Good luck with your experiment-Even though you do not have a control group.

[boogielicious]

3 minutes ago, Faksakes said:

Wow, I can't believe you are deleting those posts and edited one for name calling? There was no name calling going on. 

So I guess you are going to delete my posts until I answer you? That's really an abuse of your power here. Not very free speech but ok I will go along. 

I would use my hands to show him how to stand as a starting point and I would really try and get him to relax. I think when you have the right feel, then everything takes care of itself. A swing won't feel right if your setup is wrong. I'd tell him to experiment with his eyes closed. Take some swings and try different things. Change your setup to make that swing feel good. Move your feet around, try standing taller or more bent over. Now what feels the most effortless and powerful? Ok now take a few more like that. Ok now open your eyes and take a swing at this ball. We don't care where the ball goes, just make that swing.

That's about how I'd go about it. 

 

This is a private forum. We moderate content and delete or hide off topic content in threads. That is our job. 

I would recommend going back to discussing your progress and stop your compliants against instruction. You had a bad experience. That is unfortunate.

Many of us came here for the same reason. But we found great free advice here, a members swings section with analysis of our swings, an Instructional Content area, and many of us have had the pleasure of working with Erik as an instructor with success. 

So I would resume with an opened mind if I were you. 

[Faksakes]

Pile on all you guys want, it doesn't bother me at all. I'm going to stick to my guns and see what happens with this. And I'm going to have fun doing it.

1 minute ago, boogielicious said:

This is a private forum. We moderate content and delete or hide off topic content in threads. That is our job. 

I would recommend going back to discussing your progress and stop your compliants against instruction. You had a bad experience. That is unfortunate.

Many of us came here for the same reason. But we found great free advice here, a members swings section with analysis of our swings, an Instructional Content area, and many of us have had the pleasure of working with Erik as an instructor with success. 

So I would resume with an opened mind if I were you. 

Fair enough. 

24 minutes ago, Piz said:

Then do that.  I, for one, would be interested in both your thoughts and your progress.  And I am guessing I am not alone.  What I do not understand is why this conversation has morphed into an argument about the value of instruction in general.  Most people have a positive experience with instruction.  You have not.  I'm sorry that is the case.  Be that as it may...let's move on.  Report what you are doing, what you are thinking, and how things are going.  I am looking forward to hearing something else.

Yes, agreed. I am moving on. We'll get this back on track and I won't criticize other instruction anymore. Appreciate your comments.

[phillyk]

2 hours ago, Faksakes said:

I hear you on all that, I do. And I know you're giving them what they want. But sometimes the patient doesn't know what's good for them.

A student will most likely know if they want more or less video or more or less mechanical approach. And if they don’t we will find out which one best fits.

Learning style is different than material we are teaching. The whole reason they are taking lessons is because they don’t know the material and how to apply it.

2 hours ago, Faksakes said:

 I just think there is a much, much easier way and I think I might find it experimenting with my ideas.

Maybe back when golf first became a thing, people experimented and tinkered with finding ideas for new instructional methods. Today its very rare for someone to come up with something revolutionary in instruction. I very much doubt you will get far, especially being one not remotely in the industry, but its your journey. All I’ll say is make sure you continue to enjoy this great game!

[Faksakes]

4 minutes ago, phillyk said:

A student will most likely know if they want more or less video or more or less mechanical approach. And if they don’t we will find out which one best fits.

Learning style is different than material we are teaching. The whole reason they are taking lessons is because they don’t know the material and how to apply it.

Maybe back when golf first became a thing, people experimented and tinkered with finding ideas for new instructional methods. Today its very rare for someone to come up with something revolutionary in instruction. I very much doubt you will get far, especially being one not remotely in the industry, but its your journey. All I’ll say is make sure you continue to enjoy this great game!

Thank you my friend, I know the odds are against me but fun it will be! 

[JetFan1983]

7 hours ago, phillyk said:

 

Maybe back when golf first became a thing, people experimented and tinkered with finding ideas for new instructional methods. Today its very rare for someone to come up with something revolutionary in instruction. I very much doubt you will get far, especially being one not remotely in the industry, but its your journey. All I’ll say is make sure you continue to enjoy this great game!

This. 

It sounds like with your back problems for the last year plus, you don’t have the health to waste time beating balls and learning the game like a ten year old would.

The answers to your swing flaws have been unearthed and cataloged by golf instructors already. It sounds like you aren’t even breaking 90, and at that level, your flaws are pretty easy to pinpoint by any half decent teacher. Why waste energy trying to discover fire and the wheel? It’s dumb. Why waste ten thousand reps finding it when a good teacher can tell you now and you can start working on it now. 

If you don’t know how to find a good instructor, then you need to read up on stuff and learn how or just tell someone here what city you live in and maybe someone here knows of a guy there. 

[Faksakes]

5 hours ago, JetFan1983 said:

This. 

It sounds like with your back problems for the last year plus, you don’t have the health to waste time beating balls and learning the game like a ten year old would.

The answers to your swing flaws have been unearthed and cataloged by golf instructors already. It sounds like you aren’t even breaking 90, and at that level, your flaws are pretty easy to pinpoint by any half decent teacher. Why waste energy trying to discover fire and the wheel? It’s dumb. Why waste ten thousand reps finding it when a good teacher can tell you now and you can start working on it now. 

If you don’t know how to find a good instructor, then you need to read up on stuff and learn how or just tell someone here what city you live in and maybe someone here knows of a guy there. 

First off I spend my time how I see fit, not how anyone else tells me to. It's not a waste of time at all. I have certain theories that I want to see through and see if they work and I aim to do that. You obviously didn't read the op either. I'm relearning left handed. I was a 14 cap right handed and haven't played for 2 years.

Anyway I think I can do much better without an instructor and that's part of the challenge for me. I'm going to teach myself left handed using feel and see how good I can get. I think I'll progress much faster than I did playing right handed where I had instruction. There's a guy that someone posted about in this thread that teaches a method that is feel based. Robin Matthews williams. He's hilarious too but I agree with him on the swing. It's how I was thinking about it too if anyone wants to look up his vids. That's basically going to be my approach. Just listen to my body and experiment. The idea is to have zero back pain and just swing free and loose with as little stress and resistance as possible. I think I'm going to kick ass. 

[Phil McGleno]

22 minutes ago, Faksakes said:

First off I spend my time how I see fit, not how anyone else tells me to. It's not a waste of time at all. I have certain theories that I want to see through and see if they work and I aim to do that. You obviously didn't read the op either. I'm relearning left handed. I was a 14 cap right handed and haven't played for 2 years.

Wow do you have your finger on the pulse of this community-Man. Not.

He was saying that if you are coming back from a back injury you probably do not want to grind away on the range for hours-That you probably want to play.

And he knows a bit about coming back from an injury.-He has been sidelines longer than you.

22 minutes ago, Faksakes said:

Anyway I think I can do much better without an instructor and that's part of the challenge for me.

But You have no way of knowing whether you would have done better with an instructor.

22 minutes ago, Faksakes said:

I think I'll progress much faster than I did playing right handed where I had instruction.

You have been playing golf for 20 years already.-It is not like you are starting from knowing nothing and never having played golf before.

 

[Faksakes]

16 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

Wow do you have your finger on the pulse of this community-Man. Not.

He was saying that if you are coming back from a back injury you probably do not want to grind away on the range for hours-That you probably want to play.

And he knows a bit about coming back from an injury.-He has been sidelines longer than you.

But You have no way of knowing whether you would have done better with an instructor.

You have been playing golf for 20 years already.-It is not like you are starting from knowing nothing and never having played golf before.

 

When have I ever said I had a pulse on this community? I have no idea who he is and was responding to his comments. I also didn't say I was going to grind away on the range for hours. I have different methods. Range time is just one.

As for no idea if I'd have done better with or without an instructor how about we use common sense? If I can get better in two or three years left handed after suffering a sever back injury, than I was at right handed after 20+ years with instruction then my theories will be proven true to my satisfaction. I think anyone with  just a little bit of common sense would agree. That's my final word on that.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Faksakes

[iacas]

🤦‍♂️

You just don’t get it man.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Faksakes said:

When have I ever said I had a pulse on this community?

He didn't say you ever said you did. He was simply pointing out that you don't. Constantine is one of the nicest dudes you'd ever meet, AND he's coming off an injury and coming back to golf to boot. He could have been a kindred spirit, but instead, you just argue against straw men and things he never said.

2 hours ago, Faksakes said:

I have no idea who he is and was responding to his comments.

His comments were trying to help you, and they were coming from a place of some shared experiences.

2 hours ago, Faksakes said:

I also didn't say I was going to grind away on the range for hours.

He didn't say you said that. He was simply cautioning you - giving you advice. Sheesh.

2 hours ago, Faksakes said:

As for no idea if I'd have done better with or without an instructor how about we use common sense? If I can get better in two or three years left handed after suffering a sever back injury, than I was at right handed after 20+ years with instruction then my theories will be proven true to my satisfaction.

That's got nothing to do with common sense, and again:

• You're a sample size of one. You don't have a "control" group, nor an alternate universe. I'm glad your results will be true "to your satisfaction" but you're the only one who would be satisfied by that. Even if you failed, I wouldn't cite it as proof that I was right - it's a sample size of one.
• You seem to have completely ignored the various people telling you that you're not starting from scratch or anything. You've been playing golf for 20 years. Look at the opposite handed swings in those videos. Even though most of those people have never swung a club opposite handed… they're not starting from scratch. They'd putt almost as well lefty as they did righty, pretty quickly. They'd chip almost as well lefty as they did righty pretty quickly. I could go out right now and, from > 6000 yards, break 100 lefty. I regularly beat people in putting competitions lefty. You're not starting from scratch - another reason why the "experiment" is bogus.

That you ignore those says a lot.

2 hours ago, Faksakes said:

I think anyone with  just a little bit of common sense would agree. That's my final word on that.

 

[DogGolf92]

On 12/13/2018 at 1:52 AM, Faksakes said:

I don't know how to dead-lift so I'd have to get a trainer

@Faksakes 

i feel like this is where you are going to loose everyone on this thread. You're saying you dont know how to do something new so you would need to get a trainer. I get that you know how to golf but you don't necessarily know how to golf left handed. It seems that you are 100% against getting any sort of  coaching or help for you new swing. you are setting a goal for yourself but don't want outside help to achieve it. I find that kind of surprising. Just my opinion. Im not a the best golfers and lessons would greatly improve my game. I would like to say that changing your game from being a dominate right handed golfer to left handed golfer with a 25hdc would be an easy task but I dont think that doing it with no outside help is plausible.

Edited December 18, 2018 by DogGolf92

[ChetlovesMer]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:25 PM, Faksakes said:

I know about a dozen guys that have got lessens and worked hard on their game and have not improved at all or only very marginally. I have yet to meet one adult that got lessons and lowered their cap over the long run. They often get worse.  

WHAT!!!!!!!

Are you serious!!!!!!!!!

Dude, I hope your experiment works out, I am truly, TRULY routing for you, because anyone coming back from an injury deserves support and respect. I know it’s challenging.

But my question is: Who on Earth are you playing golf with? You REALLY haven’t met any adult who has improved their game through lessons???? I find that simply incredible! And frankly a little hard to believe.

Here’s my story. You can read it if you like, maybe it will help you.

 

I started playing golf in 1992. I was in my early 20’s and a descent athlete. I figured “How hard could it be?” I got some videos etc.. and basically played at a 28 handicap for about 4 years. Good enough to have fun.

Then, 1996 I got some good instruction an took my handicap from 28 to about 18 in one season.

After that I moved. So, I thought I could work on my game alone. I worked hard on my game. My handicap hung around 18 for years. Until my wife wanted to take up the game in 2002. When she did, she got an instructor, and I figured I’d get one, so we could take lessons the same time. He helped me get to a 10 handicap.

So, from 2002 until this past season, my wife and I have moved 3 times, both changed jobs at least once, added 2 kids to our family. During that time, my handicap has been anywhere from 10 to maybe 14 or so. Maybe higher, but I didn't always keep one over that period of time. 

Then, this past season and a half I’ve been working with an instructor I really like. This instructor has been different than others that I’ve worked with. He told me to get better, I’m going to need to make some real changes to my full swing. Previous instructors have helped me with tweaks and trying to keep what I had that “felt good” etc. This guy was like “You can get a little better that way, but to get much better, I’d suggest rebuilding your full swing.” I had the choice. I could continue with what I had, and we could tweak it and stick band-aids on it or let’s rebuild it to something more reliable. (read that as simpler).

It’s taken a while to get where I am right now, literally a season and a half. I continued to work with this guy and what I like about him is his blend of technical and feel. Personally, I like the technical, so he gives it to me. I like to know why something happens. It helps me to know why I’m making changes. There are some fundamentals that all good golf swings have. If yours doesn’t have those you are fighting an uphill battle.

I finished this season at 7.7 handicap. Which is the lowest mine handicap has ever been. I tell people I went from a 10 to 7.7, but that’s not even the whole truth. If I’m honest with myself my true starting handicap was probably higher. I’ve also totally ditched the snap-hook that used to haunt my game, always lurking in the shadows. I’m really looking forward to next season. I’m continuing to improve.

 

So, if you are still reading this, and I hope you are. What I’m getting at is over the last 26-27 years my game has grown in spurts. But every growth spurt has occurred under the tutelage of a good instructor/coach.

Are there bad coaches out there? Of course there are. But when you write that you have yet to meet one adult whose game has improved from getting lessons???? My jaw drops. I can name a dozen men and a half-dozen women whose game has DRAMATICALLY improved by getting lessons.

Again, I wish you nothing but the best on your journey. I’ve never had a serious back injury. Knee, ribs, shoulder, sure I played high school football in the 80’s so I’ve had my share. Take care of your back. Your heath is really important. Maybe consider yoga. I also ask that you seriously think about your position regarding getting lessons. There are some great coaches out there. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting many of them and working with a few of them on my own game.

Sorry about the long post.