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Kuchar Pays Caddie $5k, Is Shamed, Pays $50k

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24 minutes ago, turtleback said:

Integrity also means doing what you say you will do, and I've seen 0 evidence that Kuchar didn't do what he said he would do. 
 

I disagree. If Kuchar said the pay would be $3k, plus a bonus for cashing, then proceeded to give the caddie and envelope with a 0.15% "bonus" on top, then that speaks to his character. 

Reasonable minds can disagree about whether $15k was fair vs. $50k in that scenario. But giving the guy an additional $2k is wrong by just about any measure.

Essentially what you are arguing is that because the bonus agreement was not spelled out in black and white, Kuchar was free to do as he pleased as long as he gave the guy something. 

Question for you - would you be arguing for him if he added a $1 bonus, for a whopping total of $3,001?

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25 minutes ago, turtleback said:

I think it was when you said: We're not often in a position where someone helps us win $1.3M.

I meant it as literally as it gets - he carried the bag and raked the bunkers. That's helping over Kuchar having to do it himself.

I'm on record as having said he may have cost Kuchar more than he helped him when talking about a caddie's other tasks.

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38 minutes ago, Big C said:

Reasonable minds can disagree about whether $15k was fair vs. $50k in that scenario. But giving the guy an additional $2k is wrong by just about any measure.

Colin, I agree that Kuchar comes across as cheap for what lot of us (me included) think is a stinking low bonus for what he won but that it's 'wrong' and that he 'screwed him over' sounds a bit harsh, no?  

40 minutes ago, Big C said:

Question for you - would you be arguing for him if he added a $1 bonus, for a whopping total of $3,001?

But he didn't! He gave him $2K. If MK really wanted to screw him over, he would have done just that. 

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18 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Colin, I agree that Kuchar comes across as cheap for what lot of us (me included) think is a stinking low bonus for what he won but that it's 'wrong' and that he 'screwed him over' sounds a bit harsh, no?  

I do think it was wrong. If Kuchar had a handshake agreement to give a bonus for a tournament cash, then he set an expectation for some fair range of additional compensation. As I said above, reasonable minds can disagree about what is fair, but $2k of 1.2 million isn't even in the ballpark. Did Kuchar "screw him over?" Yeah, honestly I think he did.

2 hours ago, GolfLug said:

But he didn't! He gave him $2K. If MK really wanted to screw him over, he would have done just that. 

Fair point, but now we are just arguing the degree to which Kuchar was in the wrong. $1 clearly would have been a jerk move. What about $100? or $1,000? 

He didn't negotiate for flat rate caddie. He negotiated for $3,000 plus an unspecified percentage of his winnings. When the time came to determine the percentage, he cheaped out. I think the fact that he was willing to offer another $15k (over 7 times the original bonus amount!) when the caddie complained was telling.

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12 minutes ago, Big C said:

He didn't negotiate for flat rate caddie. He negotiated for $3,000 plus an unspecified percentage of his winnings.

And he gave the guy a 67% bonus on top of the $3k.

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41 minutes ago, iacas said:

And he gave the guy a 67% bonus on top of the $3k.

Is it your contention that $2,000 was a fair bonus on his win? Or are you just playing devil's advocate?

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3 minutes ago, Big C said:

Is it your contention that $2,000 was a fair bonus on his win? Or are you just playing devil's advocate?

My wife thinks it’s fair.

Let me ask you this: what do you think he contributed? Remember he can’t speak English even poorly.

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I for one am kind of shocked that the thread on this story has ballooned to nearly 6 pages. I'm impressed by the legs this story has. I'm sure MK would love the story to disappear.

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16 minutes ago, iacas said:

My wife thinks it’s fair.

Let me ask you this: what do you think he contributed? Remember he can’t speak English even poorly.

And yet he won. Guess it goes to show the Tour caddies are way overpaid.

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Boy, he should have taken the additional $15k when offered....that offer is not coming back around....I clearly fall on the side of Kuchar here.

On a side note, I had the opportunity through a friend of a friend to help with the review a contract for a professional athlete that was negotiating without an agent -- the deal was that I was paid hourly and (of course) did not receive nor expect that I was entitled to any agent's commission in connection with the deal.  

And I just loved this line from Kuchar's interview...."It's not coming out of Steinberg's pocket"

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mattkuchar.jpg

Matt Kuchar said he is “disappointed” and “sad” that his $5,000 payment of his Mexican caddie, David “El Tucan” Ortiz, after winning $1.3 million last November in the Mayakoba Golf Classic, has led to such hurt feelings...

Oof. This is a bad PR look. Some really bad lines in there, which aren't going to endear him to anybody:

Quote

Kuchar said he did not really understand why the pay dispute has turned into such an emotional issue. Told that a $5,000 caddie payment on a $1.3 million payday seemed frugal, he nodded, but indicated he had a different view.

“For a guy who makes $200 a day, a $5,000 week is a really big week,” he said.

The article also makes it clear that the extra $15k was after the original rumor started, and was an effort at damage control. I feel like this controversy will probably cost him more than $50,000 going forward, and the smart move may have been to just pay that.

Edited by DeadMan

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I really don't understand why a guy who did nothing but schlep around a bag for a week should expect more of a lottery ticket than he got.  And I don't think he really did until people started whispering in his ear.  50 working days pay for a week of work would, in any other context, be considered quite generous.

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Somebody should have stepped up (sponsors) and paid this caddie just to save Matt's reputation.

No the caddie doesn't deserve more money but sometimes hush money is well spent.

 Hindsight ....Pay the caddie and milk the story for all the positive media attention you can get. 

In the future everything is wrote out in a contract with caddies.

Matt would have had to pay his reg caddie 130,000.00

Instead it would have been 50,000.00 for the sub caddie. (extortion fee) 

Hes still 80,000.00 better with the sub caddie instead of his reg caddie and maintains his great guy image.

 

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7 hours ago, turtleback said:

I really don't understand why a guy who did nothing but schlep around a bag for a week should expect more of a lottery ticket than he got.  And I don't think he really did until people started whispering in his ear.  50 working days pay for a week of work would, in any other context, be considered quite generous.

I certainly see this point. But just entertain this thought; What would the outcome of this been had Kuchar, the multi-millionaire won the tournament and given the caddie $50k and said Gracias mi amigo. He would be a very popular guy in those parts. He would be hailed as one hell of a guy and Kuchar would be out $50k which in the world of Kuchar is literally peanuts. Everyone keeps minimizing the caddie’s role (he had a google translator he said he helped keep Kuchar calm) ... but none of us know what he did for Kuchar as a caddie it’s all speculation. A man who’s won $46M on the tour can spend 50k to make another human incredibly happy and help his family who at least played some role in his 1.2M pay out. It’s not like he needs to think, ‘great...now every time I travel and use a local caddie I’ll have to shell out 50k when I win.’ This was a unique occurrence and I don’t think Kuchar chunking 50k would have any negative affect. IMO.

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Quote

“I kind of think someone got in his ear,” Kuchar said. “I was very clear and very upfront on Tuesday [of the tournament week]. And he said, ‘OK.’ He had the ability, with bonuses, to make up to $4,000.”

Kuchar said he told Ortiz he would pay him $1,000 if he missed the cut, $2,000 if he made the cut, $3,000 if he had a top-20 and $4,000 if he had a top-10. “The extra $1,000 was, ‘Thank you — it was a great week.’ Those were the terms. He was in agreement with those terms. That’s where I struggle. I don’t know what happened. Someone must have said, `You need much more.’”

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/14/matt-kuchar-caddie-pay-controversy/

mattkuchar.jpg

Matt Kuchar said he is “disappointed” and “sad” that his $5,000 payment of his Mexican caddie, David “El Tucan” Ortiz, after winning $1.3 million last November in the Mayakoba Golf Classic, has led to such hurt feelings...

 

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33 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I certainly see this point. But just entertain this thought; What would the outcome of this been had Kuchar, the multi-millionaire won the tournament and given the caddie $50k and said Gracias mi amigo. He would be a very popular guy in those parts. He would be hailed as one hell of a guy and Kuchar would be out $50k which in the world of Kuchar is literally peanuts. Everyone keeps minimizing the caddie’s role (he had a google translator he said he helped keep Kuchar calm) ... but none of us know what he did for Kuchar as a caddie it’s all speculation. A man who’s won $46M on the tour can spend 50k to make another human incredibly happy and help his family who at least played some role in his 1.2M pay out. It’s not like he needs to think, ‘great...now every time I travel and use a local caddie I’ll have to shell out 50k when I win.’ This was a unique occurrence and I don’t think Kuchar chunking 50k would have any negative affect. IMO.

If he pays this caddie 50k shouldn't he pay out that much to every local caddie he uses if he wins? Isn't it only fair?

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Long-time lurker on the thread, but my thoughts have been:

Law of supply and demand. There were probably tons of guys who would've carried a PGA pro bag for a similar amount. The caddie hasn't made any case that he meaningfully contributed to the win by teaching Kuchar how the greens break, or maybe how certain shots play longer than they look due to prevailing winds, or whatever. What value did the guy bring that a bunch of others couldn't have?

A traveling caddie is 100% different. They invest themselves in the player's game, they commit to travel, and they likely do a ton more for their player due to the relationship than a local caddie. A standard (and higher) percentage of earnings is appropriate.

I don't really care if Kuchar made $1,000,000,000,000 or $100,000. It boils down to me to be: how many other guys could've and would've done the same task for the week? Probably tons. It's fair to pay people according to the value they bring- regardless of the purse that was won.

Kuchar can be charitable with his money in other ways to show what kind of a person he is. He likely has charitable causes that he contributes to. But don't measure how caring or uncaring he is based on this business relationship that is essentially driven by supply and demand.

 

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