Embedded Balls in the Lip or Wall of a Bunker

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, bkuehn1952 said:

One has a ball embedded in the stacked sod face of a bunker.  One is not permitted to  drop in the bunker (correct?) and let's say the position of the embedded ball makes it impossible to have a spot no closer to the hole and outside the bunker.

What are your options?  Play the ball or return to the spot where one last hit with a 1 stroke penalty?  Are there other options (besides quitting this infernal game 😉)

 

p.s. @DaveP043 I think we were partners when I had the unfortunate opportunity to experience this situation.  As I recall, I just allowed you to birdie the hole to win it for our team.

I remember pretty clearly, we were on #13 at Talamore.  I don't remember what I did, but I sure do remember your ball embedded in the face of the bunker.

You can always take relief for an unplayable lie.  For a ball in the General Area, which is the case here, you can take two clublengths (no closer to the hole), and the Relief Area may be in any are of the course.  You may also take relief "back on the line", and that Relief Area may be in any area of the course.  So yes, you could drop in the bunker, or behind the bunker, with a stroke penalty.  The third option, you can replay the original shot.

[gbogey]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

You may also take relief "back on the line", and that Relief Area may be in any area of the course.  So yes, you could drop in the bunker, or behind the bunker, with a stroke penalty.  

Always forget about that one.  I guess I'm not used to having the option to go back on most unplayable lies, but in the case described might be the best option.

[David in FL]

It’s worth remembering that in declaring your ball unplayable, you also have “back-on-the-line” relief available to you, which could easily be the best option in this scenario.

 edited to add that @DaveP043 beat me to it... 

Edited January 22, 2019 by David in FL

[Bubbak]

It's still not clear to me. If the ball is like that in the picture below, buried in the lip, do I get relief without penalty?  If so, where can I drop?

Bill33k

[Rulesman]

9 hours ago, Bubbak said:

It's still not clear to me. If the ball is like that in the picture below, buried in the lip, do I get relief without penalty?  If so, where can I drop?

Bill33k

Your ball would appear to be in the General Area, not in the bunker. So free relief is only available within 1 clublength of the ball but it must be in the general area. So you won't get free relief. 

See rule 16.3(b)

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=16

Also see posts #19-21

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Rulesman

[Asheville]

16 hours ago, Bubbak said:

It's still not clear to me. If the ball is like that in the picture below, buried in the lip, do I get relief without penalty?  If so, where can I drop?

Bill33k

If I found my ball at the end of your red arrow, I would first ask myself if the ball was touching the sand in the bunker (not merely some grains of sand which were not in the bunker.) If I find that the ball is not touching the bunker, I will conclude that the ball is embedded in the general area and at first glance, free relief is available.

 

Now, in order to proceed, I must determine the proper relief area. I will look for a place in he general area which is within one club-length of the ball but not nearer the hole. If I can find such a place, I shall take free relief.

 

However, such a relief area might not exist due to the shape of the edge of the bunker and the location of the hole. The sad news now is that free relief cannot be taken and the unplayable options are all that are left.

[DaveP043]

51 minutes ago, Asheville said:

If I found my ball at the end of your red arrow, I would first ask myself if the ball was touching the sand in the bunker (not merely some grains of sand which were not in the bunker.) If I find that the ball is not touching the bunker, I will conclude that the ball is embedded in the general area and at first glance, free relief is available.

Now, in order to proceed, I must determine the proper relief area. I will look for a place in he general area which is within one club-length of the ball but not nearer the hole. If I can find such a place, I shall take free relief.

However, such a relief area might not exist due to the shape of the edge of the bunker and the location of the hole. The sad news now is that free relief cannot be taken and the unplayable options are all that are left.

This is 100% correct, and was specifically addressed by a Clarification to Rule 16.3b

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rulesarticles/clarifications-of-the-2019-rules-of-golf.html#rule16

[gbogey]

Makes me feel better for asking the original question - it was confusing enough to get a clarification.😊

[GloriaDG]

If you are to apply the unplayable rule, you could go back on a line where your ball lay, as far as you like (so not in the bunker) as long as you kept the hole between your unplayable and you RP. I still want to clear up exactly when the ball is embedded in the stacked turf above a bunker..thus allowing  a free drop (as long as you have space and it is in the general area) 

[iacas]

On 6/8/2022 at 11:52 AM, GloriaDG said:

If you are to apply the unplayable rule, you could go back on a line where your ball lay, as far as you like (so not in the bunker) as long as you kept the hole between your unplayable and you RP. I still want to clear up exactly when the ball is embedded in the stacked turf above a bunker..thus allowing  a free drop (as long as you have space and it is in the general area) 

There's also a recent discussion here.