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IMO, needs to be flatter, you're hitting the ground on the tow of the club. See a club fitter and have your lie adjusted.

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2 minutes ago, cooke119 said:

IMO, needs to be flatter, you're hitting the ground on the tow of the club. See a club fitter and have your lie adjusted.

Hitting ground toe-side means he needs the club to be bent more upright, not flatter.  Doesn't look too far on the toe-side so I'd say 1 degree bent further upright should be ok.

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Club needs to be more upright, but this isn't really a great test. The line on the ball test is better, IMO, as well as seeing where the ball is going (start line control). That's ultimately what matters most with that.

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Could the OP just adjust his grip on the club to get a more favorable lie angle?

Or, could a bad grip in the first place cause this issue?

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7 minutes ago, Patch said:

Could the OP just adjust his grip on the club to get a more favorable lie angle?

Or, could a bad grip in the first place cause this issue?

Lie angle fitting starts with physical measurements. Height and wrist to floor length. Most of the time, the outcome of those measurements are very close to what angle the swing produces. 

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The club could be too short.  Moving the head farther away would flatten the effective lie.

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I'm a short guy 5'8" on a good day and my clubs are Callaway X2 Hot  irons bought off the rack at Dick's Sporting Goods. They have never been altered. I also have short arms and the wrist to floor is 29 1/2 to 30 inches. 

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On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 7:16 PM, phillyk said:

Hitting ground toe-side means he needs the club to be bent more upright, not flatter.  Doesn't look too far on the toe-side so I'd say 1 degree bent further upright should be ok.

I stand corrected, by flatter I meant more upright. Thanks for the correction.

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On 1/22/2019 at 6:31 PM, BuckeyePete77 said:

I'm a short guy 5'8" on a good day and my clubs are Callaway X2 Hot  irons bought off the rack at Dick's Sporting Goods. They have never been altered. I also have short arms and the wrist to floor is 29 1/2 to 30 inches. 

Are you sure you measured wrist to floor and not fingertips to floor?  30in would indicate you have longer arms compared to height.  At 5'8" with the 30in wrist to floor, the PING fitting system would put you at 4 degrees flat.

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48 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Are you sure you measured wrist to floor and not fingertips to floor?  30in would indicate you have longer arms compared to height.  At 5'8" with the 30in wrist to floor, the PING fitting system would put you at 4 degrees flat.

There's a lot more to fitting than a static measurement fit. You know this @phillyk.

Static fits are great starting points, but are worth very little beyond that.

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On 1/22/2019 at 9:01 PM, Piz said:

The club could be too short.  Moving the head farther away would flatten the effective lie.

No. This is wrong. Lengthening the club increases the lie angle. It's about 1 degree for every 1/2 inch of length.

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9 minutes ago, Adam C said:

No. This is wrong. Lengthening the club increases the lie angle. It's about 1 degree for every 1/2 inch of length.

Let's be clear: lengthening the club doesn't change the lie angle at all.

When you lengthen the club, the shaft angle when the club is soled is lower (or flatter), and the toe raises (often off the ground). So a lengthened club:

  • plays as a club that's more upright than the shorter length club.
  • must be flattened to play the same as when it was shorter.

Everyone was probably saying the same kinds of things, but let's be picky about how we phrase things.

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3 hours ago, iacas said:

Let's be clear: lengthening the club doesn't change the lie angle at all.

When you lengthen the club, the shaft angle when the club is soled is lower (or flatter), and the toe raises (often off the ground). So a lengthened club:

  • plays as a club that's more upright than the shorter length club.
  • must be flattened to play the same as when it was shorter.

Everyone was probably saying the same kinds of things, but let's be picky about how we phrase things.

Not sure how that is different from what I said but the point was length increases lie angle.

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3 minutes ago, Adam C said:

Not sure how that is different from what I said but the point was length increases lie angle.

Length doesn’t literally do anything to the lie angle.

I am nitpicking semantics but they matter.

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@phillyk yes the measurement I gave was incorrect. Wrist to floor is 33 inches. I appreciate everyone's input. PGA Superstore said I should be in a Ping black dot but looking at their chart it states Red 1 degree flat. Like I said I bought these Callaway X2 Hot's right off the shelf at Dick's and I hadn't played in 30 years and shooting in the mid 80's with them and a low of 78. I tend to pull my shots to the left with my irons mostly my lower irons 8-PW. The 4,5 I seem to dig the turf with so that's why I posed the question. Thanks so much for all your help. 

Edited by BuckeyePete77
wrong input

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