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carpediem4300

Issues With My Pro, or Is It Me?

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To set the scene since joining a club in April my handicap has dropped to a nice 12, and my irons that were the worst part of my game are now the envy of people that play with me, I changed my setup, and various things to achieve this. HOWEVER, the fundamental changes i made in this area of the game have crept into my Driver and are causing me serious issues, pop-ups/pulls/low hooks/high power fades, you name it!

So i went to my club pro for a lesson, explained to him all the changes i made for my irons, i know that its crept in to my driver and thats the problem BUT i asked him if he could work with that and give me some tips, take a look at my swing and change as little as possible, I just want one golf swing that requires few tweaks as possible for the big stick. I struggle enough to be consistent as it is

So he watches me pure some irons, nice baby fade and im crunching it out there with little effort, im on cloud 9 still. he videos me and shows me what im doing great with the irons. Weight stays left (righty) throughout the backswing, i get a touch narrow at the top, weight stays forward down and through impact. which is getting me great results. from DTL he showed me how my left knee was popping out towards the ball and you could see daylight between my knee's, which he says is a big no no (this is where i started getting doubts, im hitting my irons awesome, i dont care about daylight if its working)

He said the only way to stop hitting down so much with my driver was to get the weight right behind everything, stack it over the right leg to get a better AoA. i tried it, still hit it high, the fade turned into a straight slice, i jsut wasnt happy with the change. it took me 60 balls post lesson to get it out of my system and stop shanking my irons!!

I dont think he tried to work with what i had and do small tweaks, a big weight shift like that to me is a big change, 

So my questions are

1) Am i being over picky about the change and how i felt about him in my opinion not listening to what i was after?

2) If i am not being picky, has anyone got any ideas how i can keep my current swing but sort the driver out without hitting it off the deck?

 

Dont get me wrong, if he said "well lets try a couple of small things first, if they dont work then im afraid we need to look at a bigger change" then i would of been content i think, atleast i could of explored the options, but he jsut went straight for a big change

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5 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I think you’ll get a lot of requests for videos of your swing...

have just asked the pro to send over to me so will try and load up once done

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6 minutes ago, carpediem4300 said:

have just asked the pro to send over to me so will try and load up once done

A lot of times people think they’re doing one thing while actually doing another, that’s why video helps figure things out.

Swing changes also take a long time to ingrain, and furthermore, it helps to do a lot of slow steady swings in front of a mirror.

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Just now, Lihu said:

A lot of times people think they’re doing one thing while actually doing another, that’s why video helps figure things out.

Very true, my comments in the original post are based on watching the video with the pro explaining as he went through it but if it helps you guys to also see it then ill see what i can sort, hes not to quick at sorting this kinda stuff, then ive got to get it from whatsapp onto here but ill see what i can sort

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2 hours ago, carpediem4300 said:

To set the scene since joining a club in April my handicap has dropped to a nice 12, and my irons that were the worst part of my game are now the envy of people that play with me, I changed my setup, and various things to achieve this. HOWEVER, the fundamental changes i made in this area of the game have crept into my Driver and are causing me serious issues, pop-ups/pulls/low hooks/high power fades, you name it!

So i went to my club pro for a lesson, explained to him all the changes i made for my irons, i know that its crept in to my driver and thats the problem BUT i asked him if he could work with that and give me some tips, take a look at my swing and change as little as possible, I just want one golf swing that requires few tweaks as possible for the big stick. I struggle enough to be consistent as it is

So he watches me pure some irons, nice baby fade and im crunching it out there with little effort, im on cloud 9 still. he videos me and shows me what im doing great with the irons. Weight stays left (righty) throughout the backswing, i get a touch narrow at the top, weight stays forward down and through impact. which is getting me great results. from DTL he showed me how my left knee was popping out towards the ball and you could see daylight between my knee's, which he says is a big no no (this is where i started getting doubts, im hitting my irons awesome, i dont care about daylight if its working)

He said the only way to stop hitting down so much with my driver was to get the weight right behind everything, stack it over the right leg to get a better AoA. i tried it, still hit it high, the fade turned into a straight slice, i jsut wasnt happy with the change. it took me 60 balls post lesson to get it out of my system and stop shanking my irons!!

I dont think he tried to work with what i had and do small tweaks, a big weight shift like that to me is a big change, 

So my questions are

1) Am i being over picky about the change and how i felt about him in my opinion not listening to what i was after?

2) If i am not being picky, has anyone got any ideas how i can keep my current swing but sort the driver out without hitting it off the deck?

 

Dont get me wrong, if he said "well lets try a couple of small things first, if they dont work then im afraid we need to look at a bigger change" then i would of been content i think, atleast i could of explored the options, but he jsut went straight for a big change

I am very picky about instructors. Did you ask him why it was a no-no? There are other adjustments you could make in you driver swing that won't affect your irons. Sometimes ball position or set up is all that is needed.

A video in a My Swing thread would help. There are a couple of driver threads here too.

 

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34 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I am very picky about instructors. Did you ask him why it was a no-no? There are other adjustments you could make in you driver swing that won't affect your irons. Sometimes ball position or set up is all that is needed.

A video in a My Swing thread would help. There are a couple of driver threads here too.

 

he just kept banging on about how it was an element of S&T and how he wasnt a fan and just wouldnt look at other options other than changing the swing completely. Even after asking several times to try other things first

I moved the ball up to left toe but seemed to make it slightly worse or hit alot of low pulls.

I wondered if hover the driver could help, i know it wont affect the AoA much if at all but might give me half a chance of not hitting under it as much

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7 minutes ago, carpediem4300 said:

he just kept banging on about how it was an element of S&T and how he wasnt a fan and just wouldnt look at other options other than changing the swing completely. Even after asking several times to try other things first

I moved the ball up to left toe but seemed to make it slightly worse or hit alot of low pulls.

I wondered if hover the driver could help, i know it wont affect the AoA much if at all but might give me half a chance of not hitting under it as much

Check this thread out. Putting it too far forward can also cause problems because you may be on the other side of you swing arc at that point and coming OTT. Whereas you irons, you are swinging in-to-out at impact. You want to be hitting it while still swinging out.

swing circle.jpg

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7 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Check this thread out. Putting it too far forward can also cause problems because you may be on the other side of you swing arc at that point and coming OTT. Whereas you irons, you are swinging in-to-out at impact. You want to be hitting it while still swinging out.

swing circle.jpg

pretty sure that was the problem that was being caused, the thought of it going forward was "the club will be travelling upwards again" but it just caused my OTT move to be increased and ironically hit down more on it

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17 minutes ago, carpediem4300 said:

pretty sure that was the problem that was being caused, the thought of it going forward was "the club will be travelling upwards again" but it just caused my OTT move to be increased and ironically hit down more on it

Post the video. We will be able to help you make adjustments. We've all worked on this type of issue.

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4 hours ago, carpediem4300 said:

 

So i went to my club pro for a lesson, explained to him all the changes i made for my irons, i know that its crept in to my driver and thats the problem BUT i asked him if he could work with that and give me some tips, take a look at my swing and change as little as possible, I just want one golf swing that requires few tweaks as possible for the big stick. I struggle enough to be consistent as it is

So he watches me pure some irons, nice baby fade and im crunching it out there with little effort, im on cloud 9 still. he videos me and shows me what im doing great with the irons. Weight stays left (righty) throughout the backswing, i get a touch narrow at the top, weight stays forward down and through impact. which is getting me great results. from DTL he showed me how my left knee was popping out towards the ball and you could see daylight between my knee's, which he says is a big no no (this is where i started getting doubts, im hitting my irons awesome, i dont care about daylight if its working)

He said the only way to stop hitting down so much with my driver was to get the weight right behind everything, stack it over the right leg to get a better AoA. i tried it, still hit it high, the fade turned into a straight slice, i jsut wasnt happy with the change. it took me 60 balls post lesson to get it out of my system and stop shanking my irons!!

I dont think he tried to work with what i had and do small tweaks, a big weight shift like that to me is a big change, 

So my questions are

1) Am i being over picky about the change and how i felt about him in my opinion not listening to what i was after?

2) If i am not being picky, has anyone got any ideas how i can keep my current swing but sort the driver out without hitting it off the deck?

The way I read this, you went to the pro, and told him what you were doing wrong.  Essentially you diagnosed your swing faults on your own, and expected him to agree with you, even though he has a bit more experience in evaluating and diagnosing swing faults.  

Then, he suggested changes based on HIS diagnosis, not on yours.  You tried those changes for a few balls, didn't improve immediately, so gave up and went back to what you were doing (poorly) before.  

You're unhappy because the change he suggested felt like too big a change for you.  

I imagine that by now you can anticipate where I'm headed.  If you're only going to accept the diagnosis and advice that you want to get, I'm not sure I see the point of paying for a lesson.  I have no idea if the pro was doing a good job or not, I'm not competent to evaluate your swing, even if you DO post a video.  But you don't know either, you refused to give his suggested changes a fair try, because it felt wrong, and didn't produce immediate success.  In my experience, even small changes feel huge, and may take a little while to install effectively.   

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4 hours ago, carpediem4300 said:

from DTL he showed me how my left knee was popping out towards the ball and you could see daylight between my knee's, which he says is a big no no (this is where i started getting doubts, im hitting my irons awesome, i dont care about daylight if its working)

Tell that to Phil Michelson who has won a lot on the PGA Tour ;)

As long as it is not causing issues then it's not a no-no

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I agree somewhat with what Dave is saying and a lot with what Scott is saying.

The issue is @carpediem4300, likes his swing for irons, but not for driver.

It could very well be just a simple setup using his swing as is, or it could be something else?

He sounded really frustrated so I refrained from my usual joke-ish comments like why not use a 3W? Or play up with just irons?

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29 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The way I read this, you went to the pro, and told him what you were doing wrong.  Essentially you diagnosed your swing faults on your own, and expected him to agree with you, even though he has a bit more experience in evaluating and diagnosing swing faults.  

Then, he suggested changes based on HIS diagnosis, not on yours.  You tried those changes for a few balls, didn't improve immediately, so gave up and went back to what you were doing (poorly) before.  

You're unhappy because the change he suggested felt like too big a change for you.  

I imagine that by now you can anticipate where I'm headed.  If you're only going to accept the diagnosis and advice that you want to get, I'm not sure I see the point of paying for a lesson.  I have no idea if the pro was doing a good job or not, I'm not competent to evaluate your swing, even if you DO post a video.  But you don't know either, you refused to give his suggested changes a fair try, because it felt wrong, and didn't produce immediate success.  In my experience, even small changes feel huge, and may take a little while to install effectively.   

I may of not worded it very well then because I disagree with the majority of your post, not to be negative or argumentative over it though.

He agreed with my diagnosis, we watched the video, what i thought i felt happening was happening, we went from there

The bit that got me riled was i explicited said I dont want two swings if i can help it. I want to change as little as possible between irons/driver. but he wouldnt listen, he didnt suggest a single way to keep the same swing but only slightly adapt for the driver, nothin, nada. he just went straight into what i feel is a big change. 

Dont get me wrong if we tried smaller stuff like i wanted and it didnt work then i would happily accept a bigger change and just stick with it until it worked, im not afraid of change

I proved my own point with him on the night when i stopped hitting the driver and went back to my irons and shanked pretty much 60 in a row trying to refind the feel of my iron swing, I cant switch between two swings, im not capable enough, i already knew this and is why i went to him for help

14 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I agree somewhat with what Dave is saying and a lot with what Scott is saying.

The issue is @carpediem4300, likes his swing for irons, but not for driver.

It could very well be just a simple setup using his swing as is, or it could be something else?

He sounded really frustrated so I refrained from my usual joke-ish comments like why not use a 3W? Or play up with just irons?

Pretty much, i love the iron swing, it just doesnt translate to the driver and i dont want "two swings" if i can help it,.....if thats what i have to have then so be it, but im sure there is more than one way to skin a cat

Lol i would of taken it in good humour dude

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Greetings Carpediem4300,

BTW - I love your avatar.

I think you raise what I have and still believe is one of the biggest questions in golf and one of the reasons why golf is so hard. "Is my teaching pro the right teaching pro for me?" I'll be anxious to hear the comments from some of the teaching pros who are on this forum. I have worked with 4 teaching pros in my golf life. 2 of them I thought were phenomenal. 2 of them I believe were really trying to help, I also think they would have been great pros for somebody else, but they just didn't work out as well for me. I know it sounds corny but your relationship with your teaching pro is a little like a marriage. 

My advice, take it for what its worth, is go back to the guy and sit down with him. Ask him some questions. Also explain your goals. Are you looking for a long term relationship with a teaching pro? Do you want just a quick fix (call it a one night stand)? What's his philosophy on swing mechanics? Does that make sense to you? Is he a tweaker, or a rebuilder?  While you are listening to him, think about his communication style, does that work for you? Does he understand that you may have physical limitations that may mean you are unable to have a perfect golf swing? Or, perhaps you don't, I don't know. I also like teaching pros that will allow you to book "On course" lessons with them. Where they play 9 holes with you and help you with your skills under actual golf conditions. But all of these things are up to you.

I can tell you from experience the RIGHT teaching pro will help you improve dramatically, I believe much faster than without a teaching pro. If you find the right guy or gal, I suggest thinking of a long term relationship. (I truly believe that's the best way to improve.) If you don't think this is the right guy, move on. There are plenty of fish in the sea. 

Anyhoo, I don't know if this helps you or not. Good luck. Let us know how it all shakes out. 

 

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6 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Greetings Carpediem4300,

BTW - I love your avatar.

I think you raise what I have and still believe is one of the biggest questions in golf and one of the reasons why golf is so hard. "Is my teaching pro the right teaching pro for me?" I'll be anxious to hear the comments from some of the teaching pros who are on this forum. I have worked with 4 teaching pros in my golf life. 2 of them I thought were phenomenal. 2 of them I believe were really trying to help, I also think they would have been great pros for somebody else, but they just didn't work out as well for me. I know it sounds corny but your relationship with your teaching pro is a little like a marriage. 

My advice, take it for what its worth, is go back to the guy and sit down with him. Ask him some questions. Also explain your goals. Are you looking for a long term relationship with a teaching pro? Do you want just a quick fix (call it a one night stand)? What's his philosophy on swing mechanics? Does that make sense to you? Is he a tweaker, or a rebuilder?  While you are listening to him, think about his communication style, does that work for you? Does he understand that you may have physical limitations that may mean you are unable to have a perfect golf swing? Or, perhaps you don't, I don't know. I also like teaching pros that will allow you to book "On course" lessons with them. Where they play 9 holes with you and help you with your skills under actual golf conditions. But all of these things are up to you.

I can tell you from experience the RIGHT teaching pro will help you improve dramatically, I believe much faster than without a teaching pro. If you find the right guy or gal, I suggest thinking of a long term relationship. (I truly believe that's the best way to improve.) If you don't think this is the right guy, move on. There are plenty of fish in the sea. 

Anyhoo, I don't know if this helps you or not. Good luck. Let us know how it all shakes out. 

 

haha cheers

 

I think thats pretty much the crux of it, he didnt attempt to work with me, he just wanted to build a swing he liked. which is fine if nothing else worked

 

Id love to have a long term relationship with a pro, indeed i realise it will make me way better. instead of looking at millions of youtube fixes and trying by myself. thats exactly why i went to him.

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1 minute ago, carpediem4300 said:

Id love to have a long term relationship with a pro, indeed i realise it will make me way better. instead of looking at millions of youtube fixes and trying by myself. thats exactly why i went to him.

Eh, this guy just might not be your guy. … Plenty of fish in the sea. 

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48 minutes ago, carpediem4300 said:

Lol i would of taken it in good humour dude

Cool, that said, “Never trust a golf instructor looking at the crack between your knees...” 🤪😂😁

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