Does Anyone Else Here Use a Chipper?

[billchao]

On 2/23/2019 at 7:41 PM, David in FL said:

...it helps them get up and down more often from all the greens they do miss.

Even if a chipper helped a player get PGA Tour level scrambling, which it won't, they'd only one save a couple of strokes a round. Realistically having a chipper probably holds them back from learning proper pitching and chipping technique, which actually hurts their longterm improvement. Higher floor, lower ceiling.

[David in FL]

15 minutes ago, billchao said:

Even if a chipper helped a player get PGA Tour level scrambling, which it won't, they'd only one save a couple of strokes a round

One extra up and down can drop a hcp more than a point.  Are there any bogey golfers out there who wouldn’t like a very quick improvement like that for very little effort?!

 

17 minutes ago, billchao said:

 Realistically having a chipper probably holds them back from learning proper pitching and chipping technique, which actually hurts their longterm improvement. 

Fallacy.

1)  There is no reason that someone can’t use a chipper while also practicing other techniques, with different clubs.

2)  Different clubs call for different techniques.  Would you ever tell someone not to putt from 10 feet off the green if it gave them a better result, because doing so is “hurting their long term improvement”?   Why is it different if that “putter” is virtually the same, except for a little more loft?

All a chipper does, is provide another option for certain, often encountered shots.  An option that many people find easier and more effective due to the design of the club.  This game is hard enough, especially for less skilled players, many of whom don’t play very often, or seldom practice beyond beating the occasional bucket of balls.

 

 

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, David in FL said:

One extra up and down can drop a hcp more than a point.  Are there any bogey golfers out there who wouldn’t like a very quick improvement like that for very little effort?!

 

Fallacy.

1)  There is no reason that someone can’t use a chipper while also practicing other techniques, with different clubs.

2)  Different clubs call for different techniques.  Would you ever tell someone not to putt from 10 feet off the green if it gave them a better result, because doing so is “hurting their long term improvement”?   Why is it different if that “putter” is virtually the same, except for a little more loft?

All a chipper does, is provide another option for certain, often encountered shots.  An option that many people find easier and more effective due to the design of the club.  This game is hard enough, especially for less skilled players, many of whom don’t play very often, or seldom practice beyond beating the occasional bucket of balls.

 

 

So you have one in your bag then?

[iacas]

46 minutes ago, billchao said:

Even if a chipper helped a player get PGA Tour level scrambling, which it won't, they'd only one save a couple of strokes a round. Realistically having a chipper probably holds them back from learning proper pitching and chipping technique, which actually hurts their longterm improvement. Higher floor, lower ceiling.

Not quite - Greenside shots are an SV③ skill… but then again, you're only talking about the green side shots where you can use a chipper, so never mind: 1-3 shots a round is probably about right.

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

One extra up and down can drop a hcp more than a point.  Are there any bogey golfers out there who wouldn’t like a very quick improvement like that for very little effort?!

They could save that one shot by playing away from flags more often, even on green side shots.

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Fallacy.

I disagree. In my experience people with chippers lean far far too heavily on them.

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

1)  There is no reason that someone can’t use a chipper while also practicing other techniques, with different clubs.

Fact may be that though they could, they don't.

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

2)  Different clubs call for different techniques.  Would you ever tell someone not to putt from 10 feet off the green if it gave them a better result, because doing so is “hurting their long term improvement”?   Why is it different if that “putter” is virtually the same, except for a little more loft?

That's not a good analogy.

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

All a chipper does, is provide another option for certain, often encountered shots.  An option that many people find easier and more effective due to the design of the club.  This game is hard enough, especially for less skilled players, many of whom don’t play very often, or seldom practice beyond beating the occasional bucket of balls.

No, a chipper removes another club from the bag and increases reliance on a shot virtually no good player ever uses - a "chipper" shot.

[David in FL]

Just now, boogielicious said:

So you have one in your bag then?

Nope.

But I’m a reasonably skilled player, and don’t lose too many strokes around the green.  If I thought it would improve my game, I certainly would though.  

More often than not, those that won’t at least try one, don’t due to ego and a concern that they’ll be mocked.

I’m always amazed that so many people will accept, and even recommend very forgiving SGI irons for less skilled/experienced players, but at the same time denigrate the use of a chipper because “it keeps them from improving”.

[Wally Fairway]

I carry one - it is called a 6 iron; which I use similarly to how I think these chipper clubs are used. I use it when I don't want to hit a wedge and I want the shot to run out.
I used more when I played in Texas, and the ground would get hard on some of the courses that were in the Fairway rota

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, David in FL said:

More often than not, those that won’t at least try one, don’t due to ego and a concern that they’ll be mocked.

Thing is, if you're 60 and you're not looking to get better, and just squeeze what you can out of your existing game, AND you have room in the bag for a club like this… sure. But most people are looking to get better, and a chipper hampers their ability to do so.

Also, you continually over-state the value. Shocker of shockers - you can make a putting motion with your 9-iron… Or a high lofted hybrid.

5 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I’m always amazed that so many people will accept, and even recommend very forgiving SGI irons for less skilled/experienced players, but at the same time denigrate the use of a chipper because “it keeps them from improving”.

That's another poor analogy. Irons don't take the place of something else like a chipper does, irons don't prohibit you from learning the proper techniques, etc.

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

Fact may be that though they could, they don't.

The fact is, that most people don’t really practice at all.  

We sometimes forget, that while all golfers want to shoot lower scores, relatively few will do the actual work necessary to do so.

 

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, a chipper removes another club from the bag and increases reliance on a shot virtually no good player ever uses - a "chipper" shot.

Most high handicap players can easily make room for a chipper.  Maybe by dropping that damn 60* wedge that costs them more strokes than it saves.  

All a “chipper stroke” is, is chipping with a putting stroke which I know you and Mike endorse when it’s the appropriate shot.  Which is also why me putter from off the green analogy works.  It’s a great technique, and the chipper simply makes it easier to execute because the design mimics a putter.

I have never recommended a chipper for good players.  

 

[Wally Fairway]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Thing is, if you're 60 and you're not looking to get better, and just squeeze what you can out of your existing game, AND you have room in the bag for a club like this… sure. But most people are looking to get better, and a chipper hampers their ability to do so.

Also, you continually over-state the value. Shocker of shockers - you can make a putting motion with your 9-iron… Or a high lofted hybrid.

That's another poor analogy. Irons don't take the place of something else like a chipper does, irons don't prohibit you from learning the proper techniques, etc.

I'd say if you are over 60 (or at any age) and you are playing socially and not really trying to improve, then ignore the 14 club limit and carry 16 or 17 clubs if they really help you.
Because they aren't walking, or using a pull/push cart so why worry about that limitation (they aren't putting out, or going back to where they played when they lose a ball either, nor do they play provisional balls).

[David in FL]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Thing is, if you're 60 and you're not looking to get better, and just squeeze what you can out of your existing game, AND you have room in the bag for a club like this… sure. But most people are looking to get better, and a chipper hampers their ability to do so.

Also, you continually over-state the value. Shocker of shockers - you can make a putting motion with your 9-iron… Or a high lofted hybrid.

That's another poor analogy. Irons don't take the place of something else like a chipper does, irons don't prohibit you from learning the proper techniques, etc.

 

Of course you can use other clubs, and many do.  A chipper simply makes it easier for those who are less skilled to make the stroke.

What “proper technique”?  Different technique, sure.  But if someone is skilled with a chipper, why is it any less “proper” than using another club to do the same thing?

 

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, David in FL said:

The fact is, that most people don’t really practice at all.

And any time spent practicing with a chipper takes more of that precious time away from working on better techniques.

Again, if you're talking about a 60-year-old 16 handicapper who never really cares about getting better and who has a spot in the bag, go for it. That's probably a million people.

But for most everyone on this site, people who are trying to get better, to learn the proper way to play… a chipper is a non-starter. It takes up a valuable spot in the bag.

11 minutes ago, David in FL said:

We sometimes forget, that while all golfers want to shoot lower scores, relatively few will do the actual work necessary to do so.

David I don't ever forget that. I'm in touch with that every day.

Even you don't want to practice.

11 minutes ago, David in FL said:

All a “chipper stroke” is, is chipping with a putting stroke which I know you and Mike endorse when it’s the appropriate shot.

We do… with a standard club you've already got in the bag.

11 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Which is also why me putter from off the green analogy works.

No it doesn't - people don't need to be convinced of carrying a putter and occasionally using it for some specialty shot. Using a chipper isn't analogous to using a putter for something else. It's like saying "well, you can punch out from under the tree with your driver, or I can give you a special dedicated punch-out club…". People already have a driver. They already have a putter. Bad analogy.

5 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Of course you can use other clubs, and many do.  A chipper simply makes it easier for those who are less skilled to make the stroke.

 What “proper technique”?  Different technique, sure.  But if someone is skilled with a chipper, why is it any less “proper” than using another club to do the same thing?

Because it's ONE technique. With a wedge or an 8-iron, you can not only make the same chipping motion and get the same benefits from it, but you can also hit things that veer more toward the pitching side of things. And a chipper is one loft, while you can "chip with a putting motion" using ALL clubs. A hybrid, a lob wedge, and everything in between. Even a fairway wood.

---

At the end of the day, a chipper offers very small advantages while having a number of negatives.

[boogielicious]

58 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Nope.

But I’m a reasonably skilled player, and don’t lose too many strokes around the green.  If I thought it would improve my game, I certainly would though.  

More often than not, those that won’t at least try one, don’t due to ego and a concern that they’ll be mocked.

I’m always amazed that so many people will accept, and even recommend very forgiving SGI irons for less skilled/experienced players, but at the same time denigrate the use of a chipper because “it keeps them from improving”.

I was just asking and in no way denigrating the use of the club. FWIW, chipping and pitching with my wedges and high lofted irons is one of my strengths. I find them very versatile. I also found it a skill that was easy to work on. 

[billchao]

Here's a video demonstrating different techniques with a chipper: 

The thing I noticed as I watched the video is the only motion a high handicap player might not have an issue with is the bump and run where you're chipping with a putting motion, which we've established can be done with other clubs. The standard pitching and chipping motions demonstrated in the video can and will be poorly executed by high handicap players, regardless of what club they're holding in their hands. They're poor golfers due to poor skill and technique, not their equipment choices. You can still chunk or blade a chipper.

[GolfLug]

Two years ago I bought a chipper out of sheer frustration from stubbing chips with a flippy stroke (I still suffer with this to an extent) and a lot of experimental curiosity. I used it sporadically for a few rounds over 2 months or so. Here's my experience.  

1) A chipper is NOT simply a putter with more loft. If you have a picky/yippy/flippy stroke with a wedge, you will have one with a chipper. No beuno. A chipper is not THAT forgiving. It doesn't like 'handsy' strokes any more than a lofted wedge does, so don't expect magic. 

2) If you are good or have become good with a chipper with a 'putting stroke', I would wager a few bucks that you are mechanically just as good with a wedge. 

3) There IS a downside compared to a wedge. The carry to roll ratio is very small compared to a wedge. It works in very limited cases/certain type of greens setups only. Anyway, I found in most of these cases/setups a Texas wedge is just as effective. I was forced to use a wedge where a bit of carry and short roll was mandatory. So don't say good bye to the 'pesty' wedge yet. 

So yeah, for me, I certainly don't knock or mock anybody who uses it and for me it had nothing to do with ego or old man style golf or psychological or social acceptance related. If it works, I won't leave anything on the table.

It's simply not the magical alternative to a wedge like many think. 

 

15 minutes ago, billchao said:

 You can still chunk or blade a chipper.

Uhh.. yuppp. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by GolfLug

[billchao]

6 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

If you are good or have become good with a chipper with a 'putting stroke', I would wager a few bucks that you are mechanically just as good with a wedge. 

I feel the same.

7 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I found in most of these cases/setups a Texas wedge is just as effective.

It's rare, but there are times where I will putt a ball out of thick rough. It's a lot more effective than people think it is and most won't even try it.

10 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

It's simply not the magical alternative to a wedge like many think. 

Theres no such thing as a magic pill in golf. If there was, everyone would be using it.

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

Here's a video demonstrating different techniques with a chipper: 

The thing I noticed as I watched the video is the only motion a high handicap player might not have an issue with is the bump and run where you're chipping with a putting motion, which we've established can be done with other clubs.

Which is exactly the benefit.

Of course the putt/chip can be done with other clubs.  It’s just easier with a chipper because a chipper more closely mimics the length and lie of the putter, so no other adjustments are needed.

I also wouldn’t recommend that a high hcp player try to manufacture any other creative shots with a chipper, any more than I’d try to teach him to play a green side bunker shot with an open 6-iron instead of a high bounce sand wedge, though a skilled player can certainly do so.

 

[iacas]

20 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Which is exactly the benefit.

Of course the putt/chip can be done with other clubs.  It’s just easier with a chipper because a chipper more closely mimics the length and lie of the putter, so no other adjustments are needed.

I also wouldn’t recommend that a high hcp player try to manufacture any other creative shots with a chipper, any more than I’d try to teach him to play a green side bunker shot with an open 6-iron instead of a high bounce sand wedge, though a skilled player can certainly do so.

In other words… limited utility.

[David in FL]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

In other words… limited utility.

Absolutely.  I’ve never said otherwise.

But very effective in its limited role and easier for a high hcp player to use.