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  1. I'm sympathetic to the idea that it would be nice if the people who could less easily afford golf could be given a discounted rate, but you should ask yourself who golf courses generally give discounted rates to, and why. The answer, from what I've experienced, are juniors and seniors. The reason for seniors is obvious: most golf course tee sheets are wider open when people are at work (morning and midday during the week), which is when seniors are more likely to be not working and out and about. The reasons for juniors are partially the same (in the summer, at least), but also because juniors have more of their lives in front of them, and if you can hook them young with low rates they're more likely to keep coming back. Now, ask yourself: do those reasons apply to college students? Definitely not for the first one. College students generally have classes midday during the week. The second is also not applicable because college students are transient. They're only going to be there for four years, and they're probably not going to be there during the summer, when they go home. So there's no real economic reason, from the course's perspective, to give them a discounted rate. I'll add three more points: Check out the club golf team. Mine had a deal with a (surprisingly nice) local course that let us get free range balls and play rounds for next to nothing. You didn't even have to play in the tournaments. And the university subsidized the team, so there were no dues. All of your points do actually show up somewhere in the golf world: cheaper private courses. Most private courses in the $1k-$5k yearly range offer significantly reduced rates for people in their teens, 20s, sometimes up to like 35. The reason, I'm assuming, is because they know people in that age range are less likely to be able to afford the full dues, but they want to keep the age range of their membership somewhat diverse. (Their reasons, thus, aren't really the altruistic ones you're arguing for.) If you're trying to use this as the basis for a thesis or something, that's an incorrect (albeit increasingly common) usage of the phrase "to beg the question." You're really looking for "to raise the question." Begging the question is a whole separate thing.
  2. Yes, that is him. According to post, he lives there. https://www.instagram.com/p/CHxr7fapstp/
  3. There are many many things in the world that are "unfair" in just this way. If you don't have enough money, you can't have dinner at the French Laundry, you can't purchase a penthouse in Manhattan, you can't drive a Bentley. Every one of these is available to the general public, all you have to do is pony up the cash. The responsibility of a business is to make money for the owners. If the course is full of golfers at the normal rate, why would they take less money for one of those precious spots on the tee sheet? I'm not opposed to offering a discount wherever the owner or management decides its appropriate, but its their choice. Lowered rates for younger players might be a positive thing for the long-term health of golf, but should individual businesses sacrifice financially right now?
  4. BTW, as I watch another forum that’s MUCH younger than TST burn down (in a way), I have some quick and basic thoughts. This forum has existed for like 20 years in large part because of the moderation. We allow a little off topic conversation, but not a lot. We no longer allow political or religious topics (we did for a long time, and they were mostly okay, but that environment changed). We haven’t been perfect, by any stretch, but the moderators have done an awesome job. Those of you who have never run your own forum, you don’t know what you’re missing. Thank the heavens for that, because what people will do or say publicly or in a PM or whatever is often VERY, VERY different from reality. Thank you, members, for being decent people overall. Though we talk about the problems more often than we’d like, perhaps, we (as moderators) are always well aware of the silent majority that enjoy the site, that are good people who can discuss shit without getting personal or taking it personally, who would have a beer or at least a Cherry Coke Zero with you even if you just disagreed with them on something, etc. Thank you. On a different but related note, I sent these messages to a friend earlier: Some of my best friends have been people I really strongly disagreed with at first and fought with (not physically) a lot at first. But we’d keep at it. Keep fighting. And then ultimately I came to respect them, and them me, because they didn’t back down, they had their opinions and disagreed with me, but didn’t take it personally or attack or whatever. And eventually we’d find things we agreed upon. And then the disagreements always provided “content” for discussion. Similarly some of the people I can’t stand I agreed with a lot at first, and we were almost fast buddies. But then they’d do something stupid, and I’d tell them that what they did was shitty, or I’d disagree with them about something, and they’d get all pissy and that would be that. That relationship wasn’t forged in fire, while the others were. That applies here, too.
  5. I have now had this conversation with another person on another forum. I've said things like "the math bears this out." I was then criticized for not sharing the "math" and even "making it up" or just yelling "science!" like a COVID denier (or a mask denier, or whatever…). I haven't quantified the math because I don't know the exact math. We have something like 10x the number of golfers playing golf now than we did in the 1970s. This same person keeps saying that he thinks that Tiger's competition doesn't stack up to Jack's, and will say things like "there are fewer 1A players today." He'll list Seve, Watson, Floyd, Irwin, Trevino, Palmer, Player, and others as competitors to Jack, and will, if pushed, list only Phil, Ernie, and maybe Vijay as competitors to Tiger. He'll scoff at Michael Campbell beating Tiger in the 2005 U.S. Open at Pinehurst (and, I guess, ignore that Tiger beat Phil, Vijay, and Ernie?). He'll cite that Player (etc.) all have more majors than Ernie, Phil, and Vijay… and Dustin Johnson, and Jordan Spieth, etc.… while ignoring that those players also benefited from weak fields too. So, in an attempt to put "the math" into a visual form, I came up with this list. If we assume that all golfers are on a somewhat normal curve (a bell curve), this is the tippy top of the curve. The top whatever %. In Jack's day, it may be the top 0.003%. Today, it may be the top 0.0003%, as we saw about a ten-fold increase in the number of players from 1970 to 2005. At any rate, the top graph has 34 dots, with the red dot being Jack, and the bottom has 100 dots, or about triple the number. This is a cautious approach, as I genuinely think the real number of dots should be more than three-fold. The "probability of winning" goes from maybe 0.2% (1 in 500 events) on the left to something (non-linearly) higher on the right. The bottom graph illustrates how much more difficult it is to win in 2005 than in 1970. 3x as many players are squished into far less space. This reduces the chances of one of the top (two, five, ten…) guys winning in two ways: Tripling the number of players, even if the distribution was the same, would reduce everyone's chances by about 1/3. Shifting the players to the right (higher chances of winning, or reducing "1 in 500" to, say, "1 in 200" events) similarly reduces the chances of others winning. For example, if 10 players go from 0.2% to 0.5%, that 3% has to come from somewhere. This graph illustrates that not only are the top 100 players capable of winning the event that week (the real number is likely 200, and includes people who aren't even in the field, a few good Korn Ferry Tour players, etc.), but that those players at the top. To check the "math" I talked with Lou Stagner, someone who KNOWS the math. He and I had this conversation (click to see full-size): His tweet is this one: Later in the conversation, Lou said this: This is an example I always give. Imagine you invent a game when you are a kid. You and 19 of your friends play every day. 20 players total. You are the best at it of all your friends. The game catches on. And soon there are 100 players. Are you still the best? Then there are 200. You still the best? Then 500. Then 1000 Then 10,000 Are you still the best? Odds are not in your favor. I replied: Right. I've made this point… Imagine you field a football team of 50 from a town of 5,000. They play a football team from a town of 500,000. There are "decent" (way below 50%, but not 0%) odds that the starting QB from the town of 5,000 will be better than the QB from the town of 500,000. But there is basically no chance that the starting QB, RB, two WR, the kicker, a safety, a cornerback, and two linebackers from the town of 5,000 will be better than their counterparts from the town of 500,000. That the best ten (or nine) players from the small town will be better than the best nine/ten from the town of 500,000. It's effectively a 0% chance. So, the #1 player right now (Dustin Johnson) may not be better than Jack. That's not a guarantee. But the top 10 players are almost definitely better than the top 10 players of 1970. Lou, again, in response to that (in addition to liking my last post: Great example. I love it. Perfect. Tiger faces not only DEEPER, but STRONGER at every level. And yeah, Seve won his share of majors, as did Trevino and Watson and Palmer (their careers overlap with Jack's less than many realize) and Player, but they too were taking advantage of the shallow, weak fields. THIS is what the math shows, and there's almost NO chance that the best ten or even the best five players of 1970 were better than the best five or ten players of 2005, let alone for a period of several years, let alone for a decade, or a career. P.S. Here's a full-size link to the conversation: https://p197.p4.n0.cdn.getcloudapp.com/items/eDuwk5RY/conversation.jpg?v=091ffa1f177b2801866b7e32f2f14126. I forgot TST would resize the image to fit within a boundary.
  6. 3 points
    There are several things which take almost no talent to do correctly, and if you can do them, you can become a better golfer and stay a better golfer. These things should be touchstones of a sort, things you check on constantly, but again which take no (or at least not much) actual skill to achieve. These are things even beginners can do. These lists are off the top of my head. Tier 1: No Real Talent Grip the club properly - in the base of the fingers, with the right number of knuckles showing for your swing. Set up properly - weight over the right part of your feet, arms hanging almost vertically, ball position forward of center. Learn the ball flight laws. You only have to learn them once. Learn that bad shots happen, and don't require a change to what you're doing or attempting to do. Change your grips when they get worn, slick, hard. Get a video camera, alignment sticks, and a few other training aids. You don't have to spend a lot of money here. Use decent clubs. Your muscle back 2-iron is probably not helping you much. Wear sunscreen and sunglasses. Your skin and your eyes are important. Tier 2: Minimal Talent Grip the club firmly while remaining athletically "loose" with the rest of your body. Tension in the wrong places can be a killer. Loose muscles are fast muscles. Learn what "start line" and curve your ball has on any given shot. You'll be miles ahead of the game when it comes to solving problems with your swing for the rest of your life. Practice effectively. It doesn't matter if you practice for 10 minutes or 10 hours a week, if you can practice effectively, you'll squeeze as much out of that time as you can. Nobody practices perfectly, but 90% effective is better than 30% effective. Nobody hits perfect shots when practicing, either, but you can make changes when practicing properly. Learn the Shades of Grey and your Shot Zones. Play quickly. Play without fear - golf is just a game we play. Tier 3: Some Talent Learn to putt with a backswing and downswing that are about the same size. If your ball goes too short and you feel you have to make a huge stroke, just swing it faster, but keep the through and backswing lengths the same. Learn to hit a chip shot with some forward shaft lean and without throwing the trail wrist. I'm amazed at how few people can do this, even if they're just hitting a shot onto a range with no real target, solely trying to "do" this motion. Learn how to make partial swings, particularly with wedges. Learn how to have a "B" swing for days when things are not going well. Develop a ball flight — it's okay if it changes as you continue to improve — and apply the bullet point in the section above to play it. I allotted myself 15 minutes to write this post and come up with what I could come up with, and that's it. Please add your own in the comments below.
  7. Using your same simple logic - if you cannot afford to pay for golf, then don’t play. Plain and simple. We all have to make sacrifices once in a while. Why expect golf courses (or anyone) to give you a handout so you can do something that you cannot afford to do? Why should they? Finish school, get a job and when you are that 40-something, you can afford to pay for your own rounds like everyone else. I am that 40-something. I play golf because I can afford it with time and money. My housekeeper doesn’t play golf because she cannot afford either. That’s life. The last time I heard someone said “this is not fair” was when my 12 yo nephew didn’t get to have chocolate ice-cream because all we had was vanilla. I told him to grow up and buy his own icecream.
  8. I am not a psychologist but I have encountered enough, on television and in print, to offer an opinion on the subject. Wearing a white belt can indicate several things...or not. It really depends on the circumstances surrounding the individual. 1) It could be a part of a uniform. The guy cops on television shows based in the tropics often wear white belts and might, without really thinking about it, wear the same belts when they hit the links. 2) The white belt could be a gift. As such...one might feel obligated to wear it once in a while. 3) One may have grown up when wearing white belts was normal (along with white shoes) and thus think nothing of it. 4) It may be one of the few belts one owns. I own two...one tan and one red. If I owned a white belt I would probably wear it from time to time. 5) Or it could be a twisted cry for help. Although it would be more efficient to simply ask for help...we do not always think clearly when distressed. 6) Lastly...it is possible that some people like white belts. There is, after all, no accounting for taste.
  9. Giving TRUE shoes another try, these feels pretty good. I like how my left foot is given more freedom to pronate on the backswing. First couple swings are focusing more on the foot torque and creating as much tension as possible at 1 (glutes, core, feet) and keeping it during the swing. Spreading the ground on the backswing and downswing, hips can't get spinny if I maintain that stability. Hit some really solid shots working on that today. Then the last two swings are more on the play feel of turning the sternum.
  10. I wear progressive lenses for daily wear, and I was even able to get my RayBan sunglasses in progressive lenses for auto driving. But for golf, I wear single vision: my Oakley sunglasses are single vision (which is what I usually wear for golf), and I also have non-tinted single vision glasses I keep in my bag for backup and twilight.
  11. Well, that didn't take very long, all I had to do was buy a new Driver. Just picked up the G410. Speed has been improving week by week though. Nice to see every ball at 160+ even with some off center hits.
  12. Hey in all fairness. Right now there really isn't a shaft made that would actually "fit" my swing. @boogielicious I laughed out loud when a read the part about Chicago Public Schools. Thanks, brother totally made my day. I thought of a few more things the white belt could say about you. 1 - I'm a female pop star, or female pop star wannabe. 2 - I'm in the navy. 3 - I sell ice cream for a living.
  13. One more thing. Is it also "unfair" that 40-year-olds have to pay a mortgage payment, save money for their kids to go to college and/or their own retirement? Is it "unfair" that a 40-year-old will have to provide food, clothing, housing, vehicles, insurance, utilities, etc... for their families? Is it "unfair" that if a college student hits a bump in the financial road he/she can move back in with his/her folks, but a 40-year-old needs to maintain a financial cushion and/or savings to keep his/her family off the streets? Is it "unfair" that many 40-year-olds make sacrifices (both financial and other sacrifices) far greater than giving up golf to provide for their families? Is it "unfair" that many 40-year-olds are really hurting financially right now thanks to a world wide pandemic. Is it "unfair" that they lose sleep every night worrying about how they are going to provide for their families? Okay, I realize that I'm a little off the rails here. I'm just suggesting that you consider things deeply before you throw around words like "unfair". I would also argue that the 40-year-old and the college student each have the same "opportunities" to make money. They've just chosen to "invest" their time, talent, and treasures in different ways. (But that's probably a deeper discussion for another day.) I really like @DaveP043's comment.
  14. Have you taken an economics class yet? Why should the course willingly offer a discount if they’re selling their tee times? I hid the post with the PDF, too, as I doubt the book is in the public domain/free.
  15. Welcome to TST! We're excited that you've taken up golf and decided to join the best golf forum on the web. There is a wealth of great videos and threads to help your game. Look around, ask questions, comment and enjoy! Here's a 30 day Practice plan Erik put together back in April that is excellent.. Covid-19 Practice plan challenge
  16. Day 328 - November 22, 2020 Hit the ball REALLY well today. I did a lot of this stuff - backswing, backswing, backswing, slow, slow, checking in the mirror, then hitting it. Club still tips out ever so slightly, but I don't care. I can fix that with a small transition move (it'll take more than that to TRULY fix it, but I can get to VERY playable draws doing that move). Flushing it. Really felt pretty good with my SI joint stuff (the muscles). Going to post the video in my Member Swing topic too.
  17. I am very excited for this trip. I have been wanting and waiting to do another trip like this since the 2017 Newport Cup that you and @mvmac made such a great experience for all of us. I will do my best to make it a great and worthwhile trip for all who can make it.
  18. To wear a white belt you must follow the "36" rule: if your waist is larger than 36 or if your age is greater than 36 do not wear a white belt. I read this someplace.
  19. This week (Saturday-Saturday), I came close to a hole-in-one twice: This was with a 56-degree SW on a partially-blind 115-yard par-3: And then, today, this was with a PW on a 135-yard par-3: (and, for @iacas and others who have played with me, I actually have to be clear that I made both putts for birdies)
  20. If you’re going to dress a certain way, you better have the game to back it up.
  21. You'll have to go to the Kona side of the Big Island to find better golf, such as the Kona Country Club (only 1 course reopened instead of the two that were there), Makalei (a very steep side of the hill, with huge elevation changes, not everyone's cup of tea, but fun once in a while), Makani, as you found out, or go towards the Kohala resorts (Mauna Lani North and South, Mauna Kea, Hapuna, Waikoloa Beach or Waikoloa Kings courses, and also Waikoloa Village up on the hill by Waikoloa Rd). Sure those can set you back a lot more than $100 (try $300 at Mauna Kea!), but there are deals to be had here and there... Of find a golf buddy that has access to a number of private courses on the island. 😉 [Hint: you probably won't find that while playing the Hilo muni...] FWIW, the Volcano Golf Course is still closed, after a fire destroyed the club house and the operator of the course let it go. The owners (Kamehameha schools, i.e. native hawaiians) are trying to find another company to run it, though. Volcano Golf Course pau: Business shuts down, surprising Kamehameha Schools | Hawaii Tribune-Herald <p>The Volcano Golf Course and Country Club has permanently closed, leaving the future of a beloved Big Island destination in doubt.</p>
  22. That's cool and all but when are you going to do it hitting a ball? That's going to change things. Make practice swings to the beat. Set up to the ball. Listen to and feel the beat for a few measures. Then hit it on the beat. Then do it again, and the ball should go the same distance if the tempo is the same. Then do it again at a different tempo (still the same rhythm, 80 BPM, different tempo).
  23. I bet I can out 3-putt you any day of the week 🙃 Welcome to TST! Look forward to getting to know you. Also, if you haven't already, check out and create your own Member Swing thread on that page
  24. I have been wearing progressive lenses for years.... at least 20 years. I learned that to see clearly I just had to learn to point my nose at the object I was trying to read. So when putting I do not put my head down and try to look through the bottom part of the lenses. I bend my neck so that my nose points near the ball, and then rotate my head to see the line. The key is rotating your head, like if you head was on a stake, and you swivel it. If you turn and not swivel, I find it hard to see things. I hope this offers some insight and helps you.
  25. After seeing Sandy Lyle wear suspenders at the Masters, I feel that gives everybody a free pass to wear any color belt they want.
  26. I bet some of them are wearing pink panties too... But only because they’re comfortable in their masculinity! 😂
  27. But you'll remember me and thats the important part!
  28. I may wear a white belt, but at least I don’t play a shaft that doesn’t fit my swing just because it’s blue.
  29. Yes, you can out-drive, out-score, out-pretty, etc. me all you want but two years down the road the only thing I will remember about you is you were 'that-guy-with-the-white-belt..' 😂
  30. Download free e-books from Joey D Golf Sports Training Center at Free eBooks | Joey D Golf Golf fitness eBooks packed with golf fitness tips and exercises you can use today. Players at all levels can work on game improvement right here!
  31. You're hearing a lot of what I said in the first response: why should they? The answer is basically the same as: Why don't most colleges offer a female rate? Why don't most colleges offer a lefty rate? Why don't most colleges offer a minority rate? Why don't most colleges offer a discount for people between 150 and 160 pounds? So, why should the course(s) you're talking about offer a college student rate?
  32. Part of the flaw in your argument is the word "household". I know lots of college kids and even more high school kids who play golf. A few of them play almost daily. As a rule their folks pay for their golf. My neighbor, a gentleman with whom I play golf most often, has 4 kids. Their ages range from 13 to 24. They all play golf. They all play often. My neighbor and his wife, of course, pay for it. I know that doesn't help you. I'm probably telling you something you already know. That people who have more money have access to more stuff, including golf. So, as my folks used to say to me all the time "Work hard in school. Get a good job, and you'll have more opportunities." In the meantime you could: 1 - Look for a cheap muni. The town my college was located in had one. Many college towns do; They are often 9 holes. It may not be Pinehurst, but it's golf. 2 - Consider getting a part time job at a golf course. Sometimes those come with either deep discounts or free golf. 3 - Get a golf scholarship --- Okay, easier said than done. 4 - Look for a course that DOES have a special rate certain times of the day. There's one out here that has really reasonable rates for times when most people aren't interested in playing. As a college student, you may have a more flexible schedule than most golfers. 5 - Or lastly, you could do what I did... Not start playing golf until I got my first job out of college. Good luck, hang in there.
  33. Around here, the public courses are packed every day. Every day is like a weekend day. I would guess they don't offer college discounts is because they don't have to. Where you go to school, do many other places offer college discounts? I don't remember getting any discounts because I was a college student. I would recommend that your college start some sort of sponsorship deal with the local course. Offer free, or greatly discounted advertising in game programs in exchange for a student rate. The course will only offer a reduced rate if they see a benefit.
  34. First post on the site and it’s here. I’m in for this. I’m really motivated to work on my game this winter and speed sticks were part of my planned routine. Glad to have an accountability group to keep me on track.
  35. Few posters to forums admit to playing music on the course. Those that do universally state that they play the music very low so no one further than 10 feet or so away from their cart can hear the music. My experience is that there typically are several groups with music playing loud enough for me to hear from a good distance away. Generally the noise doesn't bother me but I have come to the conclusion that music players either don't post to forums or they are unaware how sound travels.
  36. K-8th grade physical education teacher.
  37. The video is private. 😞 Claim your achievements
  38. You can also use Canva. I use that for lot of editing images and it's much much cheaper than Photoshop. Easy to use as well. Let me know of the difference if you continue making other course! Good luck.
  39. Good points raised here by many. On one hand, I do think there is a lack of creativity in how the golfing community prices their product. It's probably a topic for an entirely separate thread, but I don't see any reason that courses couldn't offer a "same day" college discount for last minute unused times. While college students don't fit the demographic targets that @jamo outlined above, they do tend to have more spontaneous flexibility with their schedules than just about anyone else. A course that doesn't want to give away discounted tee times that would otherwise be booked by customers paying the full rack rate, could easily solve the problem by only discounting times for college students that are in jeopardy of going unused. On the other hand, I suspect there is a stereotype that college students are not desirable customers. Perhaps they are less likely to take proper care of the course, fix their divots, ball marks, etc. They will probably try to sneak a few beers onto the course, but they are certainly less likely to bolster the course's margins by buying food and beverage from the restaurant. When the head pro said "why would I want to cater to you guys?" maybe he meant "why would I encourage customers that are most likely to cause me problems to come to my business by charging them less?"
  40. Thank you for the time and effort you invest in moderating this site. I below to a COVID-19 oriented FB page. The information by the owner of the page is strictly data driven (showing cases, trends, hospitalizations, ... by state by country by date)... there are about 60,000 people who are follow that page. The moderators and page owner has one basic rule. Talk to each other and post just as you would if you were sitting at the dining room table with people you love. So it has become a very cordial site, and politics are not allowed. I think about this when I write a post on this or other websites. And even if we disagree, we do not have to be disagreeable. THANKS again for all you Moderators do.
  41. It would be so cool if Sandy wore white suspenders!
  42. 1 point
    Tier 1: Clean your clubs. Don't get upset the ball didn't spin as much as you wanted it to when your grooves are full of dirt and grass. Tier 2: Learn how to read your lie. Don't try to hit your fairway wood over a forced carry when the ball is buried in deep rough.
  43. I just got finished writing up the rules sheet for our first tournament of the season and the first thing we did was put in this local rule prohibiting music on the course. It just doesn't have a place in tournament golf.
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  • Posts

    • Courses that are close to Universities have this. Some Universities even have their own courses. I’ve played the U Maryland course. URI has a Par 3 near it that has intramural leagues on it at a reduced rate. It is a decent par 3 course too. Alas, I think San Jose is a pretty busy area and may not have these things available.
    • You can think about making the putt...or worry about missing it.  Guess which option is more beneficial in the long run.
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    • I started golfing three months ago, and found this site yesterday. The two things I focused on at the range session were key #1 and flaring both feet outwards...simple guidance that even a newbie like me can handle!  In looking at some of my old swing videos, I was shocked at how much I was violating key 1, and pleasantly surprised at how flaring my feet has helped with my turn and full swing. Thank you!

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