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brocks last won the day on March 13

brocks had the most liked content!

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129 Multiple Major Winner

About brocks

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  • Birthday 11/30/1952

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  1. God I love the internet. I do wish they had Arnie's wins, though.
  2. 2018 Arnold Palmer Invitational Discussion Thread

    I read somewhere years ago that Miller spent a winter chopping wood, grew some muscles, and lost his game for a while. Since then, he's been down on muscles. Actually, the same thing happened to me when I was 15. My high school got a Universal Gym, and I gained like 30 pounds of muscle and grew a couple inches taller over the winter, while not touching a club. I literally could not hit the ball the first time I went back to the course. I had a different body. At 15, I was bigger than Tiger at his biggest, which is why I always laugh when people say he's juicing. Heck, Serena Williams has bigger arms than he does. I assume it would have been much different if I had kept practicing while I was lifting, but where I lived, that wasn't possible in the winter. Is there anything in the rules that prevents you from having a big spotlight on your bag, and having your caddie turn it on or off as needed? But your apex will be higher.
  3. Poll: Definition of GOAT

    Did you read the next to last paragraph of my post? Yes, easier course setups. Easiest thing in the world to manipulate the score so that average players score better than the best players in the world, even on the same course in the same year. Tiger's winning score in the 2008 Buick Invitational, played at Torrey Pines: 67-65-66-71=269 Tiger's winning score in the 2008 US Open, played 4-1/2 months later at Torrey Pines in perfect weather: 72-68-70-73=283 They play the North Course one day out of four at the Buick, but Tiger didn't shoot 14 under that day. Wait, you say Tiger had a broken leg, so that doesn't count? OK, the Pebble Beach Pro-Am is played on three different courses, but the final round is always played on the Pebble Beach Golf Links, which also hosted the US Open in 2000 and 2010. In 2000, the final round scoring average for the 60 pros who made the cut at the Pebble Beach Pro-Am was 71.63. Four months later, the final round scoring average at the same course for the 63 pros who made the cut in the US Open was 73.2. Note that includes what many consider the single best major performance in history, when Tiger won by 15 shots. In 2010, the final round scoring average for the 69 pros who made the cut at the Pebble Beach Pro-Am was 73.2. Four months later, the final round scoring average at the same course for the 83 pros who made the cut in the US Open was 74.9. Note that the 2010 Pro-Am awarded 48 world ranking points to the winner, which meant that the field was second or third tier, depending on your definition -- stronger than a John Deere, but weaker than several regular events like the Sony and the Waste Management, let alone elite events like Quail Hollow or the Memorial. Also note that for the Pro-Am, par was 72, but for the US Open, the USGA shortened at least one par five to make it a par four, so it had a par 71. And yet, the second tier field playing the par 72 course averaged almost two shots lower than the world class field playing the par 71 course. If you can get bogus results comparing scores on the same course in the same year, how can anyone compare scores from different courses, separated by 60 years?
  4. Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

    You have a very short memory, because you also asked this: "I agree with the argument about fields being deeper from twenty and down. But how often do those level players challenge the best ones?" And I gave you facts that answered your question. In a fairly recent three-year stretch, 9 out of 12 majors were won by players outside the top 20, including 3 by players outside the top 100. Those years were not cherry-picked, they just happened to be the years I kept track, until I lost interest. So the answer appears to be 75% of the time, which in case you didn't know, is over half. So that was a teaching moment. You seemed to think it hardly ever happened, and you had a golden opportunity to increase your knowledge of the game. Instead, you chose to dismiss the data as random players about random events. A guaranteed way to remain ignorant. On the other hand, I learned something very important. I learned that it is a waste of time to present facts to you, because you will just dismiss them from your fact-free world. So the next time you complain that people are just posting their stupid opinions, remember that with you, they have zero incentive to do anything else.
  5. Poll: Definition of GOAT

    You are mistaken. Hogan, Nelson, and Snead were all the same age, and Hogan was a late bloomer. Yet before 1943, Hogan won the money title three times, and had the most wins once. Snead had the most wins twice, and one money title. Nelson had zero of each. Hogan won the Vardon twice, Nelson and Snead once each (still talking about pre-1943). Snead and Hogan were both on active duty in 1943-1944. As 1945 began, Snead was recovering from a back injury he sustained in 1944 that was bad enough to get him a medical discharge in wartime, but even so he won three events to Nelson's two in the tour's winter swing that started in November of 1944. He re-injured his back and was forced to withdraw from the Texas Open in late January, leaving a clear field for Nelson, since Hogan was still in the army and could only play once in a while when he got leave (five events in two years). Nelson won the next two events Snead didn't play, and then Snead won at Gulfport in the first week he returned, with Nelson finishing second. No way of telling whether his back still bothered him, and Snead also broke his wrist playing baseball in June of 1945, knocking him out of several more events. Hogan wasn't discharged until September of 1945, although he went on terminal leave in mid-August, and was able to play tournaments after that. From that point in the year, he won five events to Nelson's four. Nelson played a full season in 1946, and won 6 events, same as Snead. Hogan won 13. Nelson then retired. Everybody who says Nelson's 1945 season will never be equaled is right, but it's just a fact that he played against very weak fields -- basically, guys whom the army couldn't find a use for, during a huge world war. And his scoring average proves nothing, because the tournament officials know that the fans aren't coming out to see guys make bogeys, and it's very easy to lower the average score by a shot or two --- widen the fairways, mow the rough, put the pins in the middle of the greens. I can't prove that Lord Byron didn't play the best golf ever that year, but I hope he didn't. It would be a shame to have wasted it on those fields.
  6. Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

    Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you with facts.
  7. Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

    Actually, you only have to go back one year for Campbell, because 2005 was the first year the USGA had a European sectional qualifying site, and Campbell said he wouldn't have entered without that.
  8. 2018 Arnold Palmer Invitational Discussion Thread

    Wow, that shot out of the bunker. He still has shots nobody else has.
  9. Poll: Definition of GOAT

    Nelson was one of the greats, but the only time he was dominant was when he was playing against extremely depleted fields during WWII. I'll be glad to expand on that in an appropriate thread.
  10. Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

    Vijay had almost twice as many wins as Ernie. Very often. I haven't done it lately, but I kept track of the world rankings of major winners for a few years after Tiger stopped winning in 2008. In 2009, all four major winners were ranked outside the top 20 --- Cabrera was 69, Glover was 71, Cink was 33, and Yang was 110. In 2010, Mickelson was 3 and Kaymer was 13, but McDowell was 37 and Oooosthuizen was 54. In 2011, Rory was 8, but Schwartzel was 29, and the year ended with two consecutive majors won by players outside the top 100 -- Clarke and Bradley. Well, that's kind of the point. Everybody in the field is good enough to win if he has his A game. But like many Jack apologists, you seem to think that he had to fend off Arnie, Gary, Lee, Watson, and Casper every week. The record shows that he didn't. Last week Turtleback confused an old post of mine with one by Jugglepin, and I said it was an honor. Here's why. What follows is part of an actual post by Jugglepin from several years ago, showing how much pressure "the greats" put on Jack when he won his majors: ’62 US Open –Palmer had 10 3-putts in regulation, and took 38 putts on Saturday; with any kind of putting from Palmer there never would have been a playoff. ’63 Masters – Player bogeyed the last two holes to finish 3 shots back; Palmer shot 37 on the back 9 the last day and finished 5 shots out. ’63 PGA – Player was 7 shots back, Palmer 14 shots back, never in it. ’65 Masters – Jack blew the field away, just like Tiger did in ’97. ’66 Masters – Palmer shot 38 on the back 9, finishing 2 shots out of the Brewer – Nicklaus – Jacobs playoff; Player finished 11 shots back. ’67 US Open - Jack legitimately beat Palmer in this one, though by then he knew he could beat Palmer; unheard of Trevino finished 5th 8 shots back, Player was 11 shots back. ’70 Open – best known for Sanders blowing the 3-footer to give Jack a chance; nonetheless Trevino finished 2 shots back, Palmer 7 shots back, and Player missed the cut. ’71 PGA – Player was the only one close at 4 shots back, Trevino 7 shots back, Palmer 8; Player shot a final round 73 so he didn’t exactly put the pedal to the metal. ’72 Masters – Player finished 5 shots back, Trevino and Palmer both finished 14 shots back at +12; this tournament was similar to 2002 for Tiger in that absolutely no one challenged Jack the last day. ’72 US Open- Palmer shot 76 to finish 4 shots back; Trevino shot 78 to finish 5 shots back, and Player never contended, finishing 15 shots back. ’73 PGA – Watson finished 8 shots back, Trevino and Miller 9 shots back; Player 17 shots back; and Palmer missed the cut. ’75 Masters – Miller admits he chickened out shooting at the pin on 18 when he needed a birdie to tie Nicklaus; Watson was 9 shots back, Trevino 10 shots back; Palmer 11 back. ’75 PGA – Watson was 9 shots back; Palmer and Player 15 shots back; Trevino 21 shots back. ’78 Open – Watson closed with a 76 to finish 6 shots back; Trevino was 10 shots back; Player 11 shots back; Miller was cut. ’80 US Open – Watson was 4 shots back, Trevino 11 shots back. ’80 PGA – Trevino was 11 shots back, Watson 14 back in a Nicklaus runaway. ’86 Masters – great comeback by Jack, but Norman did bogey 18 to miss out playing off.
  11. Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

    Hey, come on, I'm just in my 60's, but I'm old enough to remember Hogan being in the running for GOAT when I first became interested in golf as a little boy. Back then, a lot of guys in the clubhouse still thought Bobby Jones was the best ever. But my favorite was Snead, because he was my dad's choice, and that settled it. Arnie became my favorite after my dad took me to see my first PGA event, the '63 LA Open that Arnie won. And then Jack became my favorite when he blew away the field in the '65 Masters, and he remained my favorite for over 30 years, until Tiger blew away the field in the '97 Masters. Even after that, I had no doubt that Jack was the GOAT. I first started wondering whether Tiger was GOAT-worthy when he won the 2000 US Open by 15 shots, and by the time he completed his slam, even though it was only his sixth major win, I was pretty far along to thinking he was. Every win after that made his case a little stronger, and I'd say I lost all doubt when he won seven events in a row in 2006. I never, ever bought into the idea that "most majors" was what made the GOAT, because I never, ever considered Walter Hagen the GOAT, even though he had the most majors until 1973.
  12. Poll: Definition of GOAT

    Actually, I tried to contrive it so that golfers like Bobby Jones and Sam Snead would be included in the conversation, as they were when I first became interested in golf, almost 60 years ago. Stuff like that is very hard to include in a poll question, but feel free to include those considerations in explaining why you consider the titles the same or different. I tried to include a hint of factors like that when I mentioned how many POYs, etc., Bob had won. Personally, even though I made up the biographies to make them as three different type of careers as possible, and even though I believe the titles are all distinct, I had a very hard time distinguishing between the BOAT and the GOAT, and finally decided they were the same in this case. Which is consistent with my personal definition of GOAT, i.e. the player who was most dominant for a sustained period.
  13. Poll: Definition of GOAT

    In many of the Tiger vs Jack threads, it seems that people are talking past each other, because they mean different things when they say "Greatest of All Time." For example, Golf Channel commentator Brandel Chamblee seems to be in Tiger's camp now, but just a few years ago, he said that he didn't care if Tiger won 25 majors, Jack would still be the greatest -- I assume because of Tiger's off-course escapades. So this poll is an attempt to determine how many people distinguish between the greatest golfer of all time, the best golfer of all time, and the greatest golf career of all time. I hope that those responding will explain why they answered the poll the way they did. Under consideration are three fictional golfers, all playing in the same generation: Abe entered and won the US Amateur. That got him into the following year's Masters, which he also won. The Masters win got him into the other three professional majors, and he won all of those that same year. Still playing nothing but majors, he went on to win all four majors the following year as well, but then, for reasons known only to him, stopped competing. So his career totals were 8 pro wins, all of them majors, in two years. Bob had a brilliant amateur and professional career. He won the US Amateur twice, and won two regular PGA events and one major his first year on tour. He continued to play well every year for 20 years, winning at least twice each year, and winning 0 to three majors each year. He ended his 20-year career with 50 wins, including 15 majors, and several money titles, Vardon Trophies, and Player of the Year awards. Chuck once reached the quarter finals of the US Amateur, turned pro, and got into the US Open via sectional qualifying. He caught lightning in a bottle and won. Over his career he played very erratically, usually missing over a dozen cuts every year, but for some reason the majors brought out the best in him. He only won four non-majors, and zero money titles, Vardons, or POTYs. But although he never won more than one major a year, he ended up winning 25 majors in 30 years. Note: I intended this poll to have four questions --- how many different players do you think could possibly hold the three titles, and then which golfer you would name for each of the three titles. The poll machine only allows three questions, so please add a comment about which golfer you would say had the best career. Thanks.
  14. Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

    Nope, the way you use stats, they say Young Tom Morris, because he won every single major played over a period of five years. I very much doubt that anybody will ever match that. Some Debbie Downers will claim that he played against weak fields, but the way you use stats, he played against the strongest fields in history. When he won in 1867, a full 40% of the field were major champions, and 30% were multiple major champions. So who cares if there were only 10 people in the field? You sure don't care that there were only 9 Americans in the field when Jack won his first Open in 1966, or that there were only 6 Americans when Arnie won his first Open in 1961, and most of them were amateurs or seniors. And of course, when Gary Player won his first Open in 1959, there were only 3 Americans in the field, none of whom were touring pros. The best performance turned in by an American was by amateur Bob Sweeney, who missed the cut by three shots. But hey, a major is a major, and field strength is just subjective.
  15. The USGA's Ten-Year Exemption Policy for Winners

    Tiger did it. Americans think their calendar is the only one that matters. But Tiger is half Thai, and the Thai New Year, called Songkran, begins April 13. So by that calendar, Tiger won all four in a calendar year. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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