mvmac

Yes, just a result of what's happening well before impact. Suggestion would be to start with the grip 😉 They don't think you need to actively rotate the forearms to square the face, it's a drill/feel they're describing for people that might have a severe chicken-wing type impact. You have to understand that lot of their videos are describing what is happening, not necessarily what you should be consciously doing. Their goal is to get the golfer focused more on the motion (especially early into the swing) rather than hitting positions. Saying this as someone that has talked with these guys and given them thorough feedback on their site.

General checkpoints I think are good. At A3, right hand in front or slightly behind the right shoulder. A4, arms a little more vertical than the shoulder pitch, some space between the right elbow and the rib cage. Remember what the Athletic Motion guys said, positions aren't where you manually "put" the body segments/club, they are a result of flow/motion.

First thing I would do is fix the grip. Looks very weak and making you setup with the right arm too straight and shoulders aimed too far left. Both of those things would encourage more of a left-ward path, meaning the club is swinging too much across the ball. The weaker grip (right hand on top) and super straight right arm would also encourage the club to work more inside the hands on the takeaway, another piece that can produce a left-ward path. Club works inward, you sense the weight of the head, know you have to get it back to the ball so there is a little steepening move to compensate.

73, 68 and 68 this weekend.

Just want to clarify what I mean by trial and error. The instructor is there to identify the priority piece and offer suggestions on how to accomplish it but to make a significant change/improvement the player has to be the one to internalize the cue. Let's say I'm working on getting my torso to tilt more on the backswing, instructors might say stretch the right side higher. It's up to the player to take that suggestion and customize it to a feel or visual that works best for them (and obviously changes the picture to what the instructor wants). I actually think "See and Feel the Inside Move the Outside" was fairly simple, when compared to most golf swing books. It basically comes down to how the shoulders moves a few inches and the effect it has on everything else. Overall great book, in my top ten, probably ahead of its time.

To answer your question, it's neither, figure out the piece that is leading to the most domino issues and fix that. If we all had to look like Adam Scott to play decent golf no one would break 90. Matt Wolff has a very unorthodox looking swing but has had a swing coach for several years. Regardless of textbook or unorthodox, both will share similar traits with how the body moves and how the club is delivered. You're working off an assumption that there is a "proper" way to go about learning a "golf swing". I think at the end of the day for most good players, it requires both. Some good instruction with plenty of trial and error. No one can teach you a competent golf swing. A good instructor can guide you or get you started but you have to take ownership of it. It's how we learn.

From Monday 💪

Great post @iacas Just filmed this to show what a "push" would be.

70 and 68 this weekend, greens were punched/sanded. Hit 16 greens yesterday and 15 today. Could have gone low yesterday. Started tracking my strokes gained putting for fun. Here's yesterday, And today,

Some practice and driver swings from yesterday. Hitting it solid.

@hoselpalooza, you're too focused on what people are saying and not what the data shows. Think about this with some common sense. 1. In order to "push" you have to have some flex in your leg, correct? 2. Does the trail leg gain flex or reduce in flex into transition? Did you read what the guy said? First he says max pressure left arm parallel on the backswing, which it's either there or A2.5, Then he says, How can you push hard at the top of the backswing after having the max pressure at left arm parallel? And still have the pressure numbers 50/50? Doesn't make sense. I think "push" might mean something different to him than what we are talking about. I almost wonder if he's thinking about a shearing force. This clip here is very much what @iacas has been saying about the core controlling the movement forward on the downswing. Not much opinion here, these guys are just measuring, the pressure on the ground and the body segments. This is at :25 and just after, not seeing it. He is gaining flex and lifting his trail heel, literally the opposite of a "push". Nope, I used these,

@hoselpalooza you seem to be ignoring these videos and going by what you feel is happening. You also mentioned power players pushing off the trail foot, here is Sadlowski, maybe the longest players in the world pound for pound and you can see he's clearly not pushing off in transition. The force vector is getting smaller and it's at its smallest where you think players "push off".

Recent stuff. Feeling more of what Mario describes below because if you follow this thread I have a tendency to lower my head on the takeaway which causes sequencing issues with rotation, wrist set, shaft inclination and momentum, right off the bat. Feeling more of that "upload" trigger move here, So my play/stock swing where I'm just hitting shots can have the head staying more level, like this swing. @Grizvok, @Slim_Pivot Email from Shaun Webb, reiterating the images with the boxes.

This guy use to be a professional dancer and his instructor (Mario) is amazed at how good his proprioception is but he still has to exaggerate to get to a happy medium with his swing. I watched a lesson of theirs the other day and Mario had to stand to his side, risk getting hit unless Nate changed the piece. He had to do this because they had been working for a few days to change this piece and Mario needed to get extreme with it. So even someone who was a professional dancer with great proprioception has to deal with "feel ain't real".

If it's BS then swing changes would be easy and we wouldn't need to exaggerate any feels. I think the best players of all time are aware it's not BS.