Nosevi

I think the coach did what he thought was best and Dan followed the advice. I don't personally think it was the best way to go but don't blame Dan for that. Don't really blame the coach either I just think it was the wrong approach. It's not dissimilar to how loads of people go about learning the game, albeit from a young age. But then again the vast majority don't make it to playing on tour. I just think if you want the same chance of everyone else (ie extremely slim) you do the same as everyone else. If you want to stack the deck in your favour you have to do something a bit different.

But those are neither average guys on tour driving wise nor their average drives, breath of wind behind, bit of ground help, elevated tee or a combo of all produces big drives that the fans revel at and the announcers exagerate - that shot Rory hit was "against the wind" according to the announcer yet that would have the flag hanging the other way when he fires into the pin. What sort of flags do they use on tour that hang into wind?!?!? One thing they got right - the ball was on a downslope, it got some ground help. Great drive all the same but not super-human.

I see your point I think which is exactly why I made sure I was practising with and playing with pros at and above the level I'm aiming at from the off. The guy I practice with the most often (couple of times a week when he's in the country) made the cut in his first European Tour event so is arguably 'good enough'. I could not only tell you how he strikes each club in the bag I could give you high speed video both on and off the course, FO and DTL, as well as complete launch monitor data. Having walked the fairway with him for a few tournament rounds he tends to be longer than those he's played with. How far off am I? Average of 4 yards carry for a mid iron, stretches to 9 yards for a 4 iron (but I'm working on it) and about the same for a driver. It's the end of 1 year out of 5, my call is I'll get there in that one facet of the game at least. But am I that different to the likes of Dan or am I simply going about it in a different way? I needed more power off the tee so I worked out how to get it (0500 alarm as usual tomorrow and I'll be in the gym by 0545 - it aint rocket science). I think the mistake many make is to think that by blogging it it'll somehow happen more easily whereas I think blogging it is in fact a distraction. I've got a thread on here but if you read the first part you'll notice it makes no sense as a stand alone post. That's because it was a post on this thread that was moderated into its own thread - I didn't start the thread and had zero intention of ever starting one. As I said, at best it's a distraction. All I'd say is that in a similar way to the fact that if Dan fails it doesn't mean it's undoable (one data point etc), don't judge all of these type of 'plans' by the slightly haphazard methodology of some (or perhaps most). Some of us know exactly what we're aiming at, on average I compete in some aspect of the game against a tour pro or top amateur (top 400 in the world amateur rankings) maybe 3 times a week. I know the target, getting there, now that's a different matter. :-) Personally I've never criticised Dan for the way Dan started. I've criticised the instructor I think but not Dan. I think it wasted time and as his plan has a clock running (10,000 hours) that's something he couldn't afford, but the way he started has had no actual bearing on where he is IMO. He putted for about 7 months I think but his progress stalled a while ago. Regarding Mr Smith, define 'best' in terms of "one of the best instructors in Oregon". Really?!?!? The one thing I do think would do Dan's cause the world of good would be to acknowledge those on his blog asking what's going on. He acknowledged a guy offering advice on a swing that limits back pain but nothing to numerous people asking how he is. Mistake. I get on fine with Dan but think he needs to descide whether he wants the attention a blog generates or not. Picking and choosing isn't helping him out all that much in the eyes of would be supporters.

Fair enough. I'm not convinced it's as calculated as that, I just think he underestimated the enormity of the task he had taken on and so what it would take to achieve it and is now making the most of where he is but I won't get into an argument about it I do have a question for all but you especially, Shorty. Pretty simple question really. Is it possible? I think most would say that Dan's approach was wide of the mark in a few areas but if it hadn't been is it possible that he could have succeeded in his quest had he taken a different route and if not why not?

So are you saying it was (or is?) all about achieving the end goal of making it to the PGA Tour or was just about self publicity and the golf was very much secondary?

"Freakish" is the right term. Paul Runyan was a while ago and the tour setups have changed considerably since then. Were he around today, driving the ball as he did and playing on the setups they have today Paul Runyan would not be able to compete, no one currently playing the game could. What you are talking is for someone to be as accurate with their wedges from 50 or 60 yards out as exeryone else is with their putter from 25 feet. I hate using the word impossible as someone always pitches up that proves it wrong but let's just say it would be so improbable that it's not worth contemplating what the possibility is. On a 7,200 plus yard course you've got to get the ball out there to compete. Regarding miss Spirinac she's selling something guys want to buy (golfers and non-golfers) and she's actually doing it quite successfully. She's a natural athlete who played the game from a relatively early age right up through college. You could argue that she's doing nothing that some of the girls on the LPGA do ie use sex appeal to gain media exposure, whether that will help her as she needs the sponsorship I'm pretty sure she's already got or at least got lined up or just be a distraction remains to be seen. It probably depends if the media attention is a tool she's using to get to where she wants to go golfing wise or if the media is in fact the end goal and the golf is the the means to get the media attention. What @Shorty seems to be saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that with Dan it's the latter. I'm not sure if I agree but Dan has repeatedly stated that it's not about the golf it's about discovering his potential in a new field. Not sure I could spend maybe 7 years playing golf if it's not about the golf so I think that although that may have been the case early on it probably isn't any more.

Just made a quick vid as I was in the swing studio working on pitching yardages. sorry it ends abruptly, I started waffling (and more than usual!) Couple of points. My wife said I was 'cheating' moving the pin to a set yardage. In this vid I'm trying to hit a set yardage each time, in this case 60 yards, but the pitch I'm doing using the 52 allows the ball to skip on about 2 yards, that's why I moved it Secondly having seen this vid @RandallT directed me to a vid made by @iacas here and there are some fairly obvious similarities to the technique I'm using and the one described there: Firstly I control the distance very much by my core rotation. I find this is the most consistent way of doing it. I'm not sure if you can tell but I'm also using the bounce in the shot in order to stop any problems with hitting fat shots. I find this gives by far the best contact and with a decent golf ball you can skip and stop the ball from the shortest of pitches, especially using my 60 degree wedge.. Anyway, as always comments welcome....... other than the fact that I still need to lose a lot of weight. 2 stone down and counting but yes, there's a way to go yet. There again, there have been some good chubby golfers. Maybe I could just..... Nope, I need every advantage I can give myself and fitness is one of them

Probably slim but who knows? If it was easy everyone would do it. I'm trying to do it from a 5 handicap, in 5 years, full time, coached at the National Academy, practising regularly with guys already on tour and with all the kit I can throw at it like my own swing studio with launch monitor, high speed cameras, etc. My chances are 'slim' but there's every possibility Tom is a darn sight more talented than me. Tom, give it your best shot. Whether you make it or not, you'll regret not giving it a go if that's what you want to do. Where abouts are you based? If you're within a day trip to Lincolnshire and would like a day on the launch monitor some time let me know. The guys I practice with who play on tour (or top level International Amateur circuit in one case) use it so I have all their data to compare how you strike the ball compared to the guys who are where you want to get to. Without knowing how good you need to get it's pretty tough to know how far you have to go - you need targets to work towards. I also practice on the course and around the practice green with them for the same reason. Regarding Lihu's question, where are you now? Handicap? (Actually care least about this due to the way our handicaps work) Driving numbers ie launch monitor measured carry, spin, etc? How do you strike your irons (ie actual data rather than a guess)? 2 years is a massively short period of time unless you have good indoor facilities to use given the winter is about to set in. My guestimate would be you'd be needing to strike the ball about on par with one of the scratch players who uses my swing studio and launch monitor to be in with a shot at getting your long game up to close to the sort of standard I see out of the tour guys. Give me a shout via PM if you want to, I'm one year in to a 5 year programme so could maybe help you avoid some pit falls and blind alleys.

I actually think those examples are perfectly valid and sensible. You are borne with a certain potential, you may not know what your potential is in a certain field but it's there. You can train and practice to reach that potential but you will never get beyond it. You can't, it's your potential, your talent ceiling. I actually don't think it would be a better world if we all had the same talent, if every sprinter crossed the line together, all golf tournaments just came down to pure luck and anyone could be a brain surgeon. I think the world would be a pretty dull place.

Interesting article. Not sure I agree with it all either, particularly the bit you've pointed out. Saying it's all down to purposeful practice, that 'talent' accounts for nothing is way wide of the mark IMO. The most obvious example has to be driving distance. Let's say that your physicality only allows you to drive the ball 240 yards. No matter how much effort you put in you don't possess the natural strength to get the ball past this point. You won't compete at PGA tour level no matter what your skills are in other areas of the game. At the point at which not only is every par 5 on tour out of reach in 2 shots but so are many of the par 4s you will not be able to compete at this level on those courses. A certain distance off the tee is a 'requirement' to play at that level and if you don't have the talent, you're not borne with the physical attributes to be able to do it, then you will never be able to play at that level.

Btw, if you're wondering why our carry is all similar but total distance is different, I was hitting into a green, the other 3 were hitting onto a fairway.

This post comes a little under the title of 'there's good news and bad news'. Well not great news anyway. The not great news is my left elbow hasn't really improved. It's nothing serious, basically just a repetative strain injury through hitting thousands of golf balls over the last year and it will recover. As I said in another thread having played Rugby all my life I'm used to training and playing with the odd 'niggle' but having spoken to a physio I'm going to need to back it off for a few weeks. I'm also treating it with a gizmo called a Flexbar which is desinged to strengthen the musles and tendons that have been 'over worked'. It's no biggy, could play tomorrow if I wanted but I think the bright thing to do is listen to medical advice, take a break from long game for a few weeks and work on my my short game. Timing is pretty good tbh - I can work on my short game while the weather still allows and get back into long game in the swing studio when the winter closes in. The slightly better news is the progress I've made with long game to this point whichis basically in the first year out of 5. One of the reasons for practising with players at the level I'm aiming at is to use them as benchmarks so I have targets to work towards in each area. All of them are very good golfers but they also each have their strengths - Jess it's definitely her short game, she just get's up and down from anywhere; Brian and Sam are both great around the green too but their game is much more 'long game dominant', they are huge off the tee and strike their irons really well; where Brian is an incredisbly aggressive player Rob appears to be more calculating and uses his experience, he also strikes the ball pretty well having played mostly Challenge Tour but on the European Tour a few times now. By looking at all of them I have targets to work towards in each area. Part of the methodology of my approach is to divide off skills training from applying those skills on the course. I spend way more time (at the moment) working on building my skills off the course than I do applying them on it. We'll see if that approach works. My programme really started at the opposite end of the hole from Dan's (and I'm sure each approach has its benefits) with looking at getting the ball off the tee in a manner than would allow me to compete at the level I'm aiming at. I've worked on all aspects throughout but this was target number 1 because if I couldn't do that then frankly the plan was dead in the water before it even started. By base line was 275 yards carry minimum while hitting the fairway more than 66% of the time. Having managed to drive the ball more of less how I need to area 2 is being able to strike my irons in an acceptable manner and here my swing studio has been really useful. Taking a mid iron here's some launch data: The first is me last week so this is basically where I am now. The second is Sam (number 366 in the World Amateur rankings last time I checked and pipped for the England national team next year). He launches the ball on the same trajectory as me but hits a fade and gets a bit more spin. Carry is about the same. Third up is Brian (playing pretty successfully at the level I'm aiming at and made the cut in his first European Tour start recently). He's actually a few yards longer than this now but this was taken the week before he came 2nd in an event on the tour I'm aiming st so a great benchmark. He launches it lower than Sam and I and picks up a few yards by doing it. His spin is neigh on identical to mine and seems to get enough 'bite' where sam sometimes get's a bit too much he was saying. Last up it's Rob (mainly Challenge Tour player so 1 level up from my target but has played European Tour on several occasions). His launch is back up to the same as mine and Sam's although he gets a tad more spin than I get and a few extra yards. So where does this leave me? Well at the end of year one both my driving and my ball striking potential is up to where it needs to be to achieve my goal. I say 'potential' because this is shot on a launch monitor for all of us and not during a round in competition playing for money - big difference. It doesn't mean that I will make it because I can physically strike the ball more of less as well as 3 guys who have but it does at least mean it's not physically beyond my capabilities. Had I found that I could only ever carry the ball 250 and no way could I strike an iron like those guys then the project may as well have ended here. Luckily with a bit of hard graft I've proved to myself that's not the case. Moving forward then I've got a lot of short game ahead for the next month or so, probably mostly with Jess. That said had a great bunker 'lesson' with Sam yesterday and I'm sure I'll be seeing the others from time to time as well.

Yep, it's not bad, there's not a lot you can't practice there.

Morning Chris. The facilities are pretty good for practice and it's very much the club locally where better players tend to play (hence being able to hook up with the likes of Sam, Brian, Rob and Jess). As well as the practice green which you can see towards the top of the picture below there's a full length grass range to the south of it with several target areas with flags on now and range mats to the south of the practice green (didn't have either mats or target areas when this picture was taken) which you can hit their balls on if you want or can hit your own and pick them up if it's quiet (I do the latter), a 'pitching range' again with small target areas out to about 150 yards to the west of the green, and a fair sized practice bunker to the east in which you can practice greenside shots to a target green (not kept to putting standard) you can just about see in front but also long bunker shots out to 60 yards and fairway bunker shots down the range. You can also play out of that tongue of rough you can see south of the pracice bunker down the range if you want to practice for when you miss the fairway or from the rough east of the practice bunker to the green in front of it. The course itself is only 6700 yards from the back of the white tee boxes (where I practice from) but is SSS 73 (CR 73.0) so not a bad test. Membership isn't cheap compared to many up here in Lincolnshire but is cheaper if you're younger to encourage guys in their teens and 20s to join. I need the practice facilities though and I get my money's worth as I'm there almost every day. Here's the fees: It's quite a nice place to spend your time though - this is looking over the 2nd green you can see to the west of that picture during and evening practice session:

I do, it's a great time of day to be out on the course. Mainly as sensible people are nowhere near it :-)

I do wish you'd quit sitting on the fence over this one and speak your mind @Shorty . :-)

Just a quick post. In another thread @Lihu suggested I watch "Never say die" a short video about Jason Day. I'd encourage everyone to watch it. I've always been a fan of Day, even more so after watching that video. A link is here: [VIDEO]http://youtu.be/V_SugpKp-bQ[/VIDEO] Now I wouldn't in any way liken myself to Jason - there's no personal tragedy driving me, I'm not from an underprivileged background and I'm a bit older than he was as he was working on his game. We're also on different sides of the globe. In fact our situations couldn't be more different. The only place I would say there's the slightest similarity, an area where I think we'd see eye to eye, is the idea that in order to achieve something special you have to work hard. In the video it talks of Jason getting up at 5 AM to start practising. I can relate to that - here's s picture I happened to take over the summer: I'm actually out on an early morning practice round, something I did often over the summer and this is on the 5th tee at my home club. No idea if you can check the time stamp of the photo (I'm uploading from my phone) but if you can you'll see it was taken on my iphone at 5:06 AM. Teeing off at 4:30-4:45 having got up at 4 AM was pretty common over the summer to get the most practice time in. I get to lie in now it's darker in the mornings, there's little point in an early start but the alarm is set for 5AM tomorrow as usual so I can hit the gym early while it's still dark so I don't use time I could be practising doing phys. Like I say, very little similarity between Jason and me, most noticeably he's better at golf, but in this one area I think we agree - if you want to acieve something most people will fail to accomplish you have to work harder than they are willing to work.

Thanks. You never know but there are a lot of talented golfers out there. I may well come up short but it'll be fun giving it a go and if I do fail it won't be through lack of effort or lack of a halfway decent plan, it'll be because I lack the talent to get there. Not a lot I can do about that one :-)[/quote] Sure, there are lots of things out of your control, but at least you are harnessing those that you can. :-) Btw, watch the video on Jason Day. "Never say die." Totally inspiring! He's like Ben Hogan in the modern era.[/quote] Thanks, not seen that but will watch it.

Thanks. You never know but there are a lot of talented golfers out there. I may well come up short but it'll be fun giving it a go and if I do fail it won't be through lack of effort or lack of a halfway decent plan, it'll be because I lack the talent to get there. Not a lot I can do about that one :-)

What would he write? Seems pointless.[/quote] I think I'd acknowledge the question at the very least. Things like "Hi Dan, been following you from the start, you still alive?!?" Or words to that effect are ignored. I'd reply to them myself.

True. I just think someone somewhere would say something if he was. Not necessarily on his blog but somewhere. I have no idea why he didn't seem to go see a doctor earlier though. Over here we all have free health care so I'd be in to see my doc within the week if it seemed serious, the next day if I wanted to. Not sure how it works for you guys? I don't really get the silence but then Dan's never really interacted with 'followers' on the blog and has always been more interested in chatting to the media. You probably know I'm doing something broadly similar to Dan but nowhere near as ambitious. I started life as a 5.5 handicap (that was my initial handicap) and am aiming a good 2 levels (maybe 3) down compared to Dan. It's self financed and a tad more structured than Dan's Plan. I've been asked if I'd like to give an interview about it but personally I'd prefer to chat to golfers on here than some reporter. Different priorities I guess. I'm not going to judge Dan for it as I think he believes that's the best way to get sponsorship. As I wouldn't back me I see no reason why anyone else should so I think chasing sponsorship is a bit of a waste of time (as well as violating my Amateur status - my Golf Union would be all over me if I did, particularly as I'm coached at their Headquatres, our National Academy). But anyway, no I don't get not responding to people on his blog. What's the point in a blog if it's just one sided? You may as well just keep a personal diary.

Not arguing with you there :-)

Some have said as much on his blog. I think he hurt his back pretty badly and can't play. I think that because that's what he says happened and unless I have reason not to believe someone I generally give them the benefit of the doubt. The reason why could be to do with his swing and/or lack of conditioning or could just be bad luck. Injuries happen in sport all the time. I played Rugby for 30 years, not sure I recall a season without some form of injury. In fact I'm not sure I recall a match without some form of injury, you just get used to ignoring them and getting on with it. Obviously Rugby's a different sport and adrenalin can mask the odd 'niggle' but in golf your performance will be effected far more easily. I think the likelihood is he's hurt his back. People that know him and are at his club must read the blog now and then. If they were reading that he couldn't play then seeing him out each day on the course eventually someone would call him out for it.

Good idea. Someone on here who guys know would be a good idea. Someone who can decide how success should be measured and set or agree targets and assessment criterior etc.

I get your point - no, personally I wouldn't be "happy" shooting 83.