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Posts posted by xerex250

  1. Basically, he just used less moving parts in his golf swing. He eliminated so many that he could hit 1000 balls a day without much strain or without getting even remotely tired. It's almost like he was just standing there. The single plane idea is false for this reason:

    Moe never said anything about a single plane. When I heard him speak, he said the reason he put his arms all the way out there was because he was much less likely to move his arms around too much. He gave an example of this in the videos that i will post in here. He showed his arms flailing in the close body position, then said "but out here I can't!"

    Another example of less moving parts is his placing the club behind the ball about a foot with his irons and about 2 feet with his woods. He said this eliminated a foot of the swing, put his left shoulder already in his turn, and he couldn't take it outside. I'm not saying this to make anyone mad, but it's the truth.

    Think about it. How would you hit a ball if you arms were flailing all around and your head moving side to side? You couldn't even hit the ball! Let's say you keep your head still instead and kept your arms like we do today. How much better chance would you have of hitting the ball better, more square, and just in general hitting it to begin with?

    Think before you post. Insults will NOT be posted. Any flaming and I will quit posting replies. Same with trolling or bullying. You're allowed to disagree, but do not insult other's opinions, or say that someone else is an idiot for their ideas, etc. Be nice.

    In conclusion, less moving parts equals a better strike, and though you lose distance, you're dead straight. This was his secret


    Some extra info:

    With less moving parts, you will also be able to control the distance of the shot better, and the direction.

    Warning: you lose alot of distance. At least you're straight right?

  2. My putting advice would be to simply try to get the ball close. People are too obsessed over trying to make everything. When you have a 3 footer obviously you would want to make it, but don't make a big deal out of it if you miss. Make your bogey and move on. The technique is simple as well. you take it back, and hit it. If you give it some thought its actually quite silly to think about how to roll a ball on the ground with a stick from a technical mindset. Your stroke is fine if you can hit the ball. My putting method is simple, get it close, if you miss tap in.

  3. What?

    You've been telling us this whole time Jack couldn't carry a creek 230 yards out and now he carried it 260?

    These stats are both in his book. He claimed to have carried it 260 but he also said that he couldn't carry a creek that was 230 unless he hits his best shot. I'm just stating what he said in his book.

  4. One thing I'll certainly agree with OP on is that fairways on tour courses are cut like greens on many course.  Firestone South Course has the really tightly cut, dry fairways that can produce a lot of roll IF you hit the right spot in the fairway.

    Agree with others that today's tour pros hit it a LOT farther than Jack did in his heyday with equipment available to him.  Heck, even the 19-year-old LPGA tour pro from FL has a 272 yard driving average!  And that's more than 230 carry, I'd guess.

    I just researched pros carry distances and it's about 260. Jack carried about the same. So I don't see a difference really, besides the fact that fairways and greens are much faster than they were back in the 70's.

  5. Then open your eyes.*

    * I mean that as nicely as possible. Seriously, there are HUGE differences. And Jack regularly drove the ball 260+. Don't believe everything you read. Especially if they tell you modern PGA Tour pros carry the ball 230. :P

    Really I'm getting the idea that the pros carry the ball 230 is based on Jack's book Golf My Way, which described that most pros (back then) carried about 230 and when they hit 300 yard drives it rolled about 70 yards. I guess they hit it longer now than they did then but still I think they're longest drives, even if they do carry 270, are because of the factors above. If you want a 350 yard drive, it will need roll, downhill, and tailwind. I'm a short hitter, and no matter how hard I swing, I can't get it past 250 without tearing something, so I really rely on wind and roll for my distance. Maybe I don't have enough distance to compete on the tour, But I certainly have enough to shoot par in about a year if I keep playing automatically.

    By the way, jack said that there was a hole on a course that he couldn't carry a creek 230 out unless he hit his absolutely best shot. He said this indicates the truth about professional golf distance perfectly. Though pros are longer now with carry, they can't hit 350 without roll, elevation, downhill, and tailwind (maybe not all at once). So when you're upset because you're ball isn't going long enough, think about those factors.

  6. I know you also got this directly from his book, because I got it from there as well.  It's good stuff.  However, this is not what the thread is about.  You're talking about start lines vs. target lines (basically "shot cones" )

    This thread is talking about making the center of the green your target, as opposed to the pin.

    Also, just remember that while his diagrams would show flags, and his wording might even as well ... he's really talking about where he'd aim in relation to his target, which was certainly not always the flag.

    Ok I'm sorry I misunderstood the thread. Anyway, have a good rest of your day,


  7. I agree with this from a certain point of view. Jack Nicklaus faded the ball, so he aimed about 12 feet left of the flag, never at it. The reason he did this was that if he was the hit the shot dead straight, he would have a 12 foot putt; if he doubled the amount of fade to a slice, he'd still only have a 12 foot putt. So I can see the logic behind this.

  8. You need to also take into account that the pros hit with 80% effort. I'm sure on the driving range any of them could hit close to or more than 300 carry.

    True I guess for some. Jack Nicklaus said he went full out on every shot and could carry 260. That was with the old equipment, though I don't see much difference between the old clubs and balls as compared to the modern stuff. If the pros are using 80%, then they must be some huge guys. On tv they look small, but I've seen Bubba Watson's arms and they are larger than most. He also uses leverage very well. Most of these guys are huge, like 6' and 240 pounds. I'm only about 170 pounds and 5'4". Any other ideas on how they hit the ball so far?

    Thank you for your concern,


  9. You have some points I agree with about rollout. Where I play there is no rollout (maybe a bounce or two if you are lucky). You are also way off on the carry distances the pros have.

    Hell, I'm not even any good, and certainly not the in the top three in distance where I play, but 230 is a 5 wood for me all day long.

    Maybe I am off on the carry. Still, I think that most of the distance they get comes from roll and tailwind, elevation (as someone here said) and dry, downhill fairways. Maybe they do carry at least 260, not 230. maybe even 270. But rarely does someone carry 300. But most of the time they hit the ball extraordinarily far. This was just my views on it. I guess they do carry a little longer than I said, for example maybe 270, which of course, is impossible for most of us (not all of us though) Though we can increase our distance by having these factors. I don't know, but before I wrote this thread I had looked up the average carry of pros on multiple sites and it averaged about 230-240 carry. Guess I was mislead. Still, I'm probably the shortest hitter on the planet, averaging 190 on my drives to 210. My longest carry was 250. What's the average distance someone like me should have with driver? I'm 17 and been playing for about 3 years. also, I have about a 18 handicap and I don't swing too hard. any ideas?


  10. Simply put, Jack Nicklaus said that he could carry about 260 swinging as hard as he could. He rarely hit over 300 unless he has a tailwind, downhill, and dry fairways. I'd say the same for pros nowadays. They don't carry 300 yards unless they're going downhill, downwind and on dry fairways. Most of them carry about 230 (estimate) and it rolls about 50 yards. These courses that  the pros play on are dried out hard and fast. No wonder they hit it so far! Also these courses have a lot of wind. If they have a headwind, they merely hit it lower. If they have a tailwind, look out there's going to be some bombs, especially if it's downhill and the fairways are hard. I hit my drives about 200 carry and if I had these conditions described here I could hit it 270 (maybe 250) No wonder it doesn't look like they're trying. They let the course take care of distance for them.

    Also, Jack also said that a course he had a hand in designing called harbor town,  there was a hole in which there was a creek separating two fairways and he said that it carried about 230. But he also said that he couldn't carry that spot unless he hit his absolutely best shot. He said that if he hit it even just a bit thin, he wouldn't be able to carry, no matter how hard he swung. This makes sense because most of us only drive about 230 on average, but we play on slow courses and we don't swing very hard. I swing all out and I still can't get it past 220 on the range, but on a fast course I can get it to 280. So generally, this is my opinion on how the pros hit it so far.

    Another factor though, is how strong these guys are; they swing so fast because of their strength. So if you want more distance, work out. Simple as that.

    That's my opinion.

    Sources: Jack Nicklaus' Book Golf My Way and my own logic

    Comment freely. Thank you for your concern, and I appreciate your responses

    Have a nice rest of your week,

    Xerex250 (pastaman)

  11. Ok, so we all want a better golf swing. That's fine. But here's what needs to happen to make it effective.

    For all motor skills to be properly executed, there must be little thought about "how" and more thought of just doing it. When you throw a ball, what are you thinking about? Your elbow or your wrist? No. You're thinking about throwing the ball towards the target. And I bet you can throw perfectly fine. So the golf swing, once you have the basics down, you should make it automatic. It shouldn't be consciously controlled. Just swing and hit. It really is that simple.

  12. Putting isn't difficult. Think about it. You tap a ball and it rolls towards the hole. If you can make it subconscious and not think about your stroke, just hit the putt towards the hole, you'll be a great putter in no time. Putting is so simple. Inconsistency is caused mainly by you thinking about so many different things all at once. focus on hitting the ball somewhere near the hole.

    By the way, how many 10 footers do you expect to make? About 70 percent is most people's expectation. But the pros, the best players in the game only make these 50 percent of the time. So really give it some thought. If you want to improve your score, focus on mainly just trying to get the ball close from 15 feet. Sometimes, by default, it will drop. Make those 3 footers most of the time. this way you two putt more often than three putt. But don't worry if you do end up three putting. The pros do it sometimes, so there's no reason why you should be exempt from three putting. Still, three putting isn't the end of the world. if you two putt most of the time, one putt sometimes, and thee putt rarely, then you're a great putter.

  13. I haven't heard any good players say the game is easy. If anything, the better the player, the more likely they are to talk about how difficult the game can be.

    FWIW, he isn't really an 8.

    Well it's certainly easier for me to hit a golf ball since when I began. This is kindof what I mean. Once you learn a skill it becomes easier.

  14. golf lessons are only useful is you take the swing instruction and make it natural. Don't try to control your swing consciously. Hit the ball trusting what you have learned. Read Golf for Dummies All in One book. This has 6 different books on golf improvement including score, physical fitness, swing mechanics, mental game, short game, and even some etiquette. It helped me a lot. I hope it does the same for you.

  15. Kelzzy is also the first golfer I've ever come across who thinks golf isn't hard.

    Golf is hard. Its when you get used to shooting low scores that you think its easy. When you're beginning its the most difficult thing just to hit the ball. When you get better hitting the ball isn't a chore anymore. Hes an 8 handicap so obviously it's easier for him than it would be for you (15 handicap) to play good golf. For me golf is easier now than 4 years ago when I began. And I haven't played more than 15 rounds in my life. It's still hard, just not as hard as it was when I was a 35handicap.

  16. First off, let my describe what people are teaching.

    They teach turning your shoulders against your hips, then turning the hips the other way, which in effect is twisting the spine, and the spine is only built to flex forward and backward, and a little to the side, not to twist.

    Next, they teach a certain wrist hinging technique the makes the left wrist hinge at the thumb area, sideways, which can injure the wrist when its only meant to hinge forward and down, backward and up.

    Next they teach keeping the left heel planted, which in many cases, when you turn to make your backswing, it causes the knee to jab inward, which can inure it. Also keeping the right knee flexed is a good way to injure the ankle.

    Where do people come up with this stuff?

    I think a better way of swinging a golf club would be to allow the left heel to lift while flexing the left knee out, allowing your hips to turn with your shoulders, straightening the right knee, allowing your wrist to concave or convex a little (not too much, as long as you're not hinging it sideways), and the downswing initiated with the hands and arms to generate clubhead speed, allowing the body to follow.

    Sorry to get so technical when I'm not a technical golfer, but I just want to prevent people from injury so that they can prolong their golfing years.

    Actually to tell you the truth people back in the day of golfing instruction taught not only to turn the hips going back, but to lift the left heel. They were against having it planted. Watch some youtube videos and you'll see that the classic swing of bobby jones has a heel life in every club down to the wedge.

    Discuss as you will. you're allowed to disagree, but not to argue with anyone here including me. You may once again disagree if you want to, and you can also tell me if I'm wrong about my theory here, but don't do it in an insulting or offensive way.

    Thank you for your concern. discuss as you will.

  17. I just hope you enjoy golf while you can. Most people miss out on actually enjoying the game when they think too much. I say just play. If consistent golf is your deal then go for it. Go down the path that is suitable for you. I play predictable golf which is boring for me. But if it works for you that's perfectly fine. Good golfing mate.

  18. Yeah,  a lot has changed since that post really.  The changes I am making are for the better.  I have much more understanding now than I did 4 years ago. I know what needs to happen now and it's getting much better.  I don't think too much about mechanics when I'm playing.  I save that for the range and practice sessions. I'm looking for more consistency and predictability.  Without these swing changes, those 2 concepts are hard to come by.

    I'm glad those changes are working for you.

    Just something you might want to know. Consistent golf may actually be boring. If you consistently hit shots on the fairway it can become repetitive and boring. Mishit some shots (not on purpose) and play the perfect shot for the situation. Hitting every fairway isn't golf. Missing greens is normal. So just play as you see fit.

  19. It's just interesting how people like to think too much on the course . You on the other hand know that the course is where you improve. You can still work on your swing at the range, but on the course the main objective is to get the ball into the hole. If you notice my handicap lowered to an 18 recently.

    Everyone says I have a nice swing, but I think golf is more than the swing. I believe that it is meant to be enjoyed. If you are on tour, that's a different story. Its very serious. You're playing for money and if you screw up one hole then you will miss the cut and you won't get paid.

    One last thing:

    Tiger woods was once so good naturally because he was competitive. He and Nicklaus had the same mindset. I heard this from both of them: "I want to be the best, play with the best, and beat the best," or something along those lines. So naturally they were the best because they had the mindset of being the best. Most other professionals just want their paycheck.

    Just thought I'd bring it up.

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