Jump to content


Established Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by sinned123

  1. Gentlemen...(...and I use that term loosely...:-))......Thank you for all the info that you all provided.

    I was looking at serial #'s, product dates etc....I guess that's because it's the engineer in me, no my 14/15 handicap that's going to make a world of difference.....


    Thanks again, this site is fantastic, the info that can be gleamed from these forums....!!

  2. here is an excerpt of an article.... sorry for the length...



    Ok, there seems to be alot of mis-information online about tour vs. retail.  So I started doing a little fact finding from experienced people in the industry that are well know, honest and have credentials.  I am also contacting OEMs for more specific information on what each one does.  Please remember this is not my opinion but the opinions and facts from people actually qualified.  To start off below is the infamous post that is posted on several boards other than where it was originally found.  This is not meant to be any type of bashing post but rather a fact finding mission for the general golfing public so please keep your comments as such.  I welcome any information from OEM's or actual industry people that can offer honest opinions or facts or members from other boards.  Lets keep this clean and see where it leads and what we can find out.  

    The titanium used in the production of the Tour heads is generally NOT the same as the retail models. It is a very high grade titanium which is stronger and less prone to failure. The average player will never hit 10,000 balls with his driver like a Tour pro will, and thus, has no real need for this quality of materials. It is also more free of imperfections, and much more costly to tool because of the hardness. This grade is mildly heavier, but that is not of great concern because no Tour player plays a 46 inch driver. Just a few grams heavier, which is why you will always see the weight discrepency in Tour and retail heads, even raw and unweighted.

    The COG in the Tour heads is almost ALWAYS at a different point than the retail models, generating a mildly lower ball flight and spin rate that most good players desire. There also are NO weight bias' built into the head, unlike retail heads which 99% of the time, have a heel weight bias. This is pretty much true with all Tour drivers no matter what the companies might LIKE the consumer to believe. With a Tour driver, the COG is generally around 2-3mm higher in the Tour head, which results in about 1-1.5 degree of launch angle lower, and 300-600 rpm of spin rate lower than the retail heads. Of course, this can vary slightly.

    In Tour fairway woods and utilities, there will also be a mildly higher COG, and either neutral or fade bias built into the COG of the head. 99% of retail fairways and utilities have a heel/draw bias, and generally a more upright lie angle to help the "average" player control their slice.

    Of course we all know the face angle is generally square or open on a Tour head, but this is an adjustment made by the Tour department or van, and is really not relevant to any production or internal differences, but is still a difference none the less.

    All heads are also tested and conform to the maximum allowable COR.

    In terms of Tour irons, most manufacturers will have their heads forged by one of the premium facilities like Miura or Endo for the Tour product, but go with a large mass forging facility in China for the production heads. TaylorMade for example uses Miura to forge the Tour sets, Titleist uses Endo, and Nike has used both in the production of the Tour heads. Tour irons are generally dead on spec in terms of weight. You will not get a Tour set of irons with swingweights all over the board like you do with retail sets. This is because of the quality control at the high grade forging houses. These heads are also nearly free of imperfections both external and internal, and generally have an entirely different feel than their retail counterparts. These forgings are, obviously, higher quality accross the board, and MUCH more expensive to have done than the retail line.

    Often time the sole configuration is a bit different as well. Much of the time Tour irons will have a slightly more narrow sole, a blunted leading edge, and more bounce, as the Tour player generally hits down through the ball, taking a divot, where the "average" player generally does not. Often times the Tour heads will have less offset as well as certain lower glare finishes like black or satin, as opposed to the shiney chrome of most retail clubs.

    Grooves can also be different in Tour irons as well, not only in configuration, but in actual production. Tour iron heads will ALWAYS have precision milled grooves, where the cutting tool is changed prematurely to make sure there are no imperfections in any of the grooves, unlike retail which are mass produced and generally MUCH more sloppy in terms of quality and precision. Tour iron heads are also often made with both box and V grooves. This is distinguishable on TaylorMade Tour iron heads by the lack of swirl marks on the face of the iron. This has NOTHING to do with the face being milled, as all Tour iron heads are milled for precision. They just remove the swirl marks on the V groove heads to help reduce the spin slightly. V grooves are a lower spin head for the player who wants a flatter and more penetrating ball flight.

    Tour wedges also are drastically different than their retail counterparts. They share many of the characteristics of Tour irons, but also have their own unique differences as well. Tour wedges will often have unique finishes and very unique sole grinds. More so than iron heads, to combat a variety of conditions and player styles. The most obvious difference to the eye are facial milling marks on many occasions, varying grinds, and Tour only finishes.

    The main difference that makes a Tour wedge perform differently than a retail wedge is the groove. 99.9% of all Tour wedges will have a more agressive groove than retail. This groove is meant to generate more spin. This spin is a God send on very fast greens, from deep rough, and in the wind. Common sense will tell you that more spin means a higher ball flight, but with the way a groove like TaylorMade's Tour exclusive Y groove bites the ball, the flight is actually lower and more penetrating, which allows the player to generate great spin for bite, and a lower flight for MUCH improved control. Many average players enjoy seeing a high arcing wedge shot. PGA Tour pros prefer the lower, more controlled flight, assisted by their wedge grooves and confidence that the ball will bite, even when hit low and flat. Most Tour wedges will have an agressive box groove design, with the exception of TaylorMade's Y Cutter wedge which is a TaylorMade exclusive groove design which lowers flight even more, generates more green biting spin, all while not destroying premium golf balls to a great degree. It truly is THE revolutionary design in wedge grooves"


    google "the truth between tour vs retail golf clubs "

    another fascinating tidbit....tour players wedges have at the least ...DOUBLE the bounce that us amateurs play with...somewhere in the 20 degree range.I have an extra SW and went to a club fitter the other day and asked if he either can configure my wedge to 20 degree bounce or I'd buy one (titleist or callaway) and have him configure that....He couldn't or wouldn't do it.....probably thought I was a crazy guy....!!   

  3. Has anyone have some knowledge of this subject?. I just googled the title and was shocked that the manufacturers of clubs can almost "sell knock offs " of their own club line. I understand the pros have more of need for perfection with their equipment but I didn't' think the difference between say my driver and Spieth's was THAT much different. 


    Any Thoughts?

  4. Maybe it's me but I can't concentrate if there is some guy next to me spending 20 minutes twisting and bending and doing everything else but hitting the ball. Today the guy next to me had a full bucket and I swear he spent a half hour doing some kind of elaborate warm up routine involving slow motion drills, putting on his shoes, sitting down and having a soda, on and on and on. I was through 30 balls and this guy was still doing the rituals.

    I know I should just block it out but can't. I picked up my stuff an moved down the range.I'll admit I'm easily distracted.


    maybe with a 30 handicap you should worry about your rapid fire away attitude on the range. If someone is so distracting to you, move down range. 

  5. I recently got my hands on a Cobra Fly-Z driver with the stock stiff shaft that it came with. Any suggestions on a reg. shaft that will launch the ball higher and possibly give me more yards....currently a 14 handicapper who hits the driver 210 - 225(ish) yards.... thanks for any suggestions


  6. wow Phil, thank good you don't have any agendas or else you'd really be pissed.

    I have spent a day @ Metedeconk wit h Eric and yes, I even spent the 24$+/- on the lowest score wins. It's not a bad thing to see other perspectives.

    I thought most players w/ a plus handicap were hmmm, what's that word???...oh yeah, I've found it.....Pompous....glad you didn't disappoint me.

  7. I got the book and started reading it. I like the concept of not putting a golfer into a "BOX"....Everyone has their own swing, flat,loopy,upright, feet still, feet active,long backswing, short backswing, etc...etc..The author goes on to show a myriad of different golfers with different swings,all making tons of money and collecting big time hardware.His point being that understanding clubface and path are very important factors to scoring. Most of us practice wrong. We look great doing it though, and we don't get that much better because of it. If we practice more with a purpose and a game plan, we'd get much more out of the session.I fall into that category. I'm a 14-15 handicapper.I look GREAT on the range with a beautiful swing.(Thank you to my very first coach/pro Mario, RIP sir.).But I've been practicing since to be 'meh'. Yesterday, I tried for the first time time to work on some things the book talked about in the first couple of chapters.Club face and path. I've had 3 lessons w/ Mike Breed last year and he discussed this very same philosophy with me. I just either couldn't get it or didn't want to get it. BECAUSE I WAS MAKING SHIT SHOTS WITH THIS METHOD ON THE RANGE !!!. ..I wasted time and good money with Breed because I wanted instant gratification and when I didn't get it I didn't stay with it.

    Now reading the book I'm getting it.I'll practice with a different mindset now, one I should've been doing for the past year.

    I like the book so far. It's easy to comprehend, and the author has a good website with interesting articles.

    It's all about understanding the clubface and path,the instant your club makes contact with the ball....hopefully I have the skill to get my handicap down to an 11.....or even lower !!!

  8. DAve, you say you're in match play. What's your opponents handicap?

    you're down 4 after 6 holes......

    what holes are you stroking on(holes 7 thru 18)...?

    I play match play 80-90% of the time within 2 clubs that I play in, When I'm getting strokes, the holes that I'm getting them on I feel I MUST WIN THOSE HOLES, at worst a PUSH..

    when I'm giving strokes, the holes that my opponent are receiving strokes, I feel I need to PUSH those holes , if I win those holes it's like a huge hole for me.

    Match Play is like a chess game., You got to plan your match before you play, look at the course/holes and try to execute and ADAPT to the constant ebb and flow of the game....

    you already lost this match if you feel as bad as you sound in your post. DESPAIR usually means DEFEAT......

  9. I'm 57...I'm not sure at my age I can make a substantial increase in fast twitch muscle speed relating to golf or any other sport.(I've done the Ironman competition a number of times, since 1988. Now if I really want to work on swim speed, I can only reach a certain plateau).

    I've used those 3 swing sticks that have been discussed in another forum, But swinging fast indoors on a simulator vs swinging on the first tee during a competition are two different animals.I guess I'm happy with 90-95 mph and hitting near the sweet spot on an upswing more then 100 mph and possibly hitting off the toe.heel.thinning it..etc...

    good luck

  10. We have a home in Brigantine and get out on The Links every so often (but less the past few years given the deteriorating conditions). You're correct about them needing the money as they're in bigtime trouble which has impacted any real upkeep. There's a battle underway about future ownership with the city and outside management companies (Ron Jaworski's golf management company in particular) making pitches. It's a shame because it can be a neat little track but there are way too many better options in the area worth the $$.

    A 24hr simulator? Nice! Where might that be?

    I like the Brig...just not in July when we have a 2 day tournament there...the GREEN HEADS are terrible !...

    The 24 hr simulator is up aways from you..! exit 135 off the GSP...google the "GOLFCAVE"....I've been investing a lot of time there since Jan....Like I stated, the 95 was not indicative on how I swing the club....I worked all winter on not hooding my face and making a better back swing(fuller)...

  11. I played Brigantine GC in AC this past Sunday...cart path only, and for the first time I saw they used mini pins !(flag sticks)   Fairways were terrible, they shouldn't have even been open to play, but I guess they were desperate for the money...I see some Monmouth county courses are opening this week(NJ) but now with the advent of possible snow on Friday, I'll see if they will shut it back down.

    Thank goodness I found an indoor simulator that is open 24 hrs about a 1/2 hour from me. At least I can work on my swing.(Although shooting a 95 Sunday didn't show the fact that I have been swinging the clubs all winter.)..

  12. I've been fitted for my clubs, G-25's, not on a simulator with all the techno info, but outside, in a range with crappy mats. Although I am hitting my irons well, I'm striking the ball near the heel, or at least inside of the sweet spot. I'm working on my grip this winter and I feel I'm making a good pass through the ball but any ideas how I can strike it closer to center?(this is happening w/ my woods and hybrids as well)

  13. My elation was short lived...seems the only consistency I have is being inconsistent.I was at the indoor simulator the other day,maybe it was the way I slept, my mood,whatever other shit that goes on in ones life....but my swing,tempo,body turn just wasn't there. I averaged 240+/- yards, my mishits were just terrible and my swing speed could not get near 100 mph, more like 93+/-. When I tried to swing fast I was all over the place. But put that all aside, what I am really working on this winter is my launch degree.last season I was 5-7 degrees with a serious duck hook.My hybrid and 5 wood were non exsistent. My longest club was a 5 iron. My scores were in the low 90's, breaking 90 was a pipe dream. Now with a new driver, these super swing sticks, a nice simulator, and a better understanding of my gold game (because of LSW) I feel more confident of my game. now to answer BJ's questions.... The sim. was one I used before I bought the super swing sticks.... I am swinging the sticks fast but in control.I found this method better served for me. my ball flight now (driver) has a launch from 11-13 degrees, and a nice draw(better then my hook, with a push every now and then to keep slapping me in the face.... for 40 straight days I have swung a club with a focus on a finger grip in my right hand, not my old death grip hook grip.
  14. I've been swing the super speed golf clubs every day now for a week. Went to the simulator this morning and my driver speed was in the average of 100-105 mph range...my distance average shot up from the 230+/- yards to the 255+/- yards .. I also changed my settings on my calloway driver( I have a 13 degree, dropped it -1 degree.(last year with at least 3 drivers I had a launch angle around 7-9...now I average 11-12...im really try to coil and swing "thru" the ball.)

  15. Well,I tried swing my new SUPER SPEED GOLF clubs today @ work....I coul dn't swing in the kneeling position but I tried the regular standing/ step forward swings...

    I will say my first time swinging the clubs that I was somewhat conservative...I will try again tomorrow @ home in the ya rd without worrying if I'm going to hit anything...just have to put with my SO and her running commentary about if I don't have it by 56 I'm never gonna get ......

    RIGHTSIDE:                        LEFTSIDE

    GREEN --81                       GREEN-- 73

    BLUE--   74                        BLUE --70

    RED --    72                       RED--- 66


    GREEN-- 76                       GREEN -- 69

    BLUE----- 75                       BLUE-- 64

    RED----- 66                        RED--- 62

    my driver swing speed the other day was 96+/- mph with a distance of 236-244 yds...

  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...