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Posts posted by TheDIYGolfer

  1. On 2/25/2016 at 8:31 AM, djfajt71 said:

    I recently started with Evolvr and am very eager to finally fix my all of my flaws!  I recently completed my first submission and was given a new swing thought and a slightly narrower stance to begin working on.  I am stopping by the range today to begin my work on it. Here is my dilemma.  I am playing in a scramble this Saturday.  Do I try to incorporate the new swing thought and stance so soon?  Or, for that day, do I go with what I know and go back to the training after the scramble?  If it helps, the specific swing thought is to relax my arms more on my downswing.  My arms are initiating my downswing, instead of letting my hips do so. 

    I know this is a bit late of a response, but thought it might help for the future.

    Whenever I am trying to incorporate a new swing thought and still have to play an important round of golf, here is my process (hope it helps!): 

    1.  During the practice swings (2-3), I focus hard on the swing thoughts that I am wanting to change.  

    2.  I will always focus while setting up (so yes, incorporate that narrow stance)

    3.  When it comes time to swing, I simply count in my head "1, 2, 3", and focus on making a rhythmic swing, free of those swing thoughts.  The key is to TRUST that your practice and pre-shot routine have ingrained the movements well enough for your swing to produce a good result.  

    This method won't have you hitting 14/14 fairways, but I think it will help you incorporate new swing thoughts a lot quicker than before!

    Let me know what you think :)

  2. On 1/28/2016 at 4:05 PM, nevets88 said:

    It's basically adaptive testing - if you've taken certification tests for any industry or the GMAT, GRE, etc... on a computer, that's what it is. I wonder if most of the terms transfer over to Flightscope. I guess most of them do. Anyway, worth it especially when you read instruction articles that throw around radar terms or to fill in gaps you're unaware of.


    That's too funny!! I was just hitting on FlightScope yesterday wondering the same thing.  I went ahead and enrolled, but haven't had the time to sit down and dig through the content yet.

    Anyone know how long this site has been up??

  3. 12 hours ago, GolfLug said:

    Cause and effect with the guidance of 5SK. Sheer physics demands that the club-head move in a diagonal path and move in with square face at impact and the body must hold a fairly steady tilted axis structurally and rotate at the same time. From my POV the 5 keys address all of those. I guess as long as swing theories (good ones) hold these simple basics kosher you can work your levers in slightly different magnitudes and sequences. IMHO, in reality the differences are not really that great and there is an optimum sequence where club moves most efficiently and consistently. As to what it is for each person, to each their own.

    Judging from your HCP you obviously must have a decent handle. Anyway happy hunting.

    With any skill, it seems to me that there are only a few "key" things to know in order to be successful (as in the 5 simple keys).  It's just interesting to me how many different ways you can say the same thing.  I'll probably end up where I started, but hey, it will keep me busy for a while!

  4. 9 hours ago, nevets88 said:

    If I wanted to try and understand cause and effect, I'd try and learn firsthand from the above and as many experts as possible.

    3 hours ago, nevets88 said:

    If I had a swing theory, well, more of a swing guideline, it's trust what you see on camera (assuming good angles of course) in conjunction w/what you felt. Your instincts are more reliable than you think. Be critical of whomever gives you advice or whatever you read, no matter how many accolades accumulated.

    Like I said in the first part of this post, I'm definitely a fan of this method!  I guess the tough part for me has been matching what I see to what I feel, because as we all are aware, these two things are different for the majority of golfers.  That's why I'm trying to understand as many "principles," "theories," "systems," (whatever you classify them) as possible so maybe I can have a better ability to match what I see to what I feel.

    I've got a swing coach who has a really good understanding of the golf swing (mainly through Hogan's teachings, but some from Mac O Grady as well), but despite this, I still have this urge to doubt and learn on my own.

    I guess I'm just stubborn in that way. 

  5. 10 hours ago, nevets88 said:

    When you "buy into" a pro, you're buying more into his mind view, not the theory. 

    That's a great way to put it.  Based on several responses here, I guess what I'm trying to do is distinguish between "theory" and "systems."   

    For example, the 5SK is a "system" based on "theories?" 

    But where does the theory even start?  Most of the list above just seem like "systems" developed by professional swing coaches as you had mentioned above.



  6. 8 hours ago, mchepp said:

    Maybe @TheDIYGolfer you can share what you are looking for? Just to do your own comparison to then decide what works best for you? Or you just want to say there are this many ways to hit a golf ball? I am intrigued by why you want to look for all these. 

    I can think of a few more obscure ones than what is on your list. 

    - Natural Golf (kinda twist on Moe Norman)

    - Right Sided Swing (Edwin)

    - Advanced Ball Striking (Erikson)

    - Speedchain (Miyahira)

    - MORAD (O'Grady)

    If I remember more I can put them on here. I would say in the last 10 years I have forgotten more than I can remember.

    For the longest time, I have just copied the moves of professional swings that produce results in the ball-striking category (yes I know, not very analytical).

    I'm not necessarily interested in knowing all the swing theories, but what they all have in common.  The golf swing can be as simple (visual appearance) or as complex (swing theories) as you want to make it, and for the better part of my golfing days, I've taken that simpler route. 

    Now, I'm trying to understand cause/effect more so I can be a better "troubleshooter" (knowing what movements/combination of movements causes different faulty positions in the swing), but I'm too skeptical to just jump into one theory and believe everything.

    With any category of learning, I like to see every point of view before putting my trust in any of them.  It's not that I don't believe in the work of different swing "theorists."  I just wouldn't feel comfortable not knowing a good majority of the different schools of thought. 

    Hope that answers your question!  I know it may seem a bit crazy but it's the truth:-( 

  7. 1 hour ago, natureboy said:

    His heel lift was as big as Bubba on the drive, but I think he went at the ball with just a little less gusto (though probably very similar in his early years) with his body, arms, and hands. Only Nicklaus even in his youth didn't 'jump' like Bubba (Jack's lead heel stayed low) and IMO that adds a bit more potential snap to Bubba's drives at some extra cost to consistency / accuracy, because it's an additional element to time and one that's likely to affect balance and consistently centered impact.

    Yes I agree having that lead leg more grounded at impact almost gives you something to hit against, providing some extra stability.  Although the video above talks about Jack moving that lead foot, you'll see that it still stays grounded.

  8. Hi all, 

    I've been doing some reading on different swing theories, trying to understand the differences between some of them.  I wanted to post this thread for anyone who has done some in depth research on the different theories, their strengths and weaknesses. 

    As I understand it, there are several time tested principles that most teachers will build their teaching upon, but after that, it's very individualized. 

    Here at the Sand Trap, the golf swing is taught through the 5SK system, but I wanted to see if anyone had a list of "systems" that have been/are being taught.  

    Although it is short, here is my list: 

    - 5SK (Evans)

    - The Hogan Swing (Hogan..)

    - Stack N Tilt (Bennett, Plummer)

    - One Plane (Hardy??)

    - Two Plane (Hardy??)

    - "Impact Zone" (Clampett)

    - The Golfing Machine (more of a list of terminology..)

    - The "A Swing" (Leadbetter)

    Feel free to criticize, add, remove as you feel necessary!  I'm just trying to get an idea where the different teachings are coming from.


  9. 8 hours ago, natureboy said:

    I think it could depend how you deal mentally with the tradeoff between some extra distance and a bit more waywardness that may come with it. Hogan was highly competitive and could be seen as a bit of a control enthusiast and when in the mix a loose shot may have caused him intense anguish.

    He won about 15 PGA individual medal events in 1946 & 1947 lifting his lead heel very high, including his first major. Probably a couple loose shots in tournaments in 1947 got under his skin in a way that Bubba may just shrug off. Without strokes gained analysis Hogan may not have appreciated the way his distance relative to the field with the high heel lift swing offset the occasional hook into trouble.

    When Hogan used his new '5 Lessons' swing in 1948 he won 9 times - but only 1.5 events more than the average haul of the prior two years. But he nabbed two majors, including the U.S. Open, which is an event that tends to put a big premium on tee shots in the fairway. Bubba tends not to do as well on those setups as at the Masters (avg of ~ 27 places different) which is a bit more open off the tee.

    Hogan may have found a shift in approach that worked best for his approach, temperament, swing tendencies, and goals - an optimum balance between distance / accuracy / consistency. I think he did say he had to practice less with the '5 Lessons Swing', but he had already put in a ton of time grooving a powerful pivot and 'educating' his hands.

    But both swings earned him a bunch of trophies and medals.

    Very good point.  I definitely do not know enough about Hogan to challenge it, but I do agree he was a control over distance guy.  

    In the end, it's hard to speculate on the correlation between left heel raise and accuracy.  Some guys make it work while others don't.

    I guess it's up to you as a golfer to figure that out about yourself.

  10. On December 27, 2015 at 10:13 PM, JapanDave said:

    Here in Japan, I have never seen a practice range that does not have mats instead of grass. I tend to hit down on the ball which in some instances can cause jarring of the hands. So by the end of the session it seems my swing has adapted to hitting off the mat. Then I go to a course and it takes me half a round to get back to hitting the way I do. So over the last year when I go to a range, I just hit my driver and spoon, no irons and my golf is better for it. Thing is, I still need to practice my irons. Any suggestions? Is there a mat that mimics grass out there?

    This might sound a bit too simple, but I'd focus on analyzing your swing with video analysis.  I used to wonder about this, but you can certainly get better off mats.

    The key is determining what kind of feedback you are using.  

    It's going to frustrate the heck out of you if you judge your swing on the shots it is producing off mats (especially if they are old).  

    But if you use your time at the range to work on the moving components of the swing with video analysis, you'll get much more done.  

  11. On January 18, 2016 at 5:48 PM, 9wood said:

    Been there done that. Best advice I could give someone is to keep your head down. The normal tendency is to want to look up and see where your ball is going. That's what causes many ball striking and directional problems. Focus on watching the blades of grass move as you swing through the ball rather than being in a hurry to pick up your head. You would be amazed at the difference this can make. Give it a try and see for yourself. 

    There is a BIG difference between keeping the head down on the backswing and at impact..

    When you consciously try to keep your head down at impact you are only hurting yourself (literally in some cases if you hold it there too long!).  The head will stay down for that critical moment of impact naturally as a result of a proper swing.  

    Go check out the instructional content here on the site for sure if you're just a beginner!

  12. On January 22, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Golfingdad said:

    I believe that actively doing anything with your lead heel is bad.  Make the turn you need to make.  If your heel needs to come off the ground to make it happen, a la Jack Nicklaus or Bubba Watson, then so be it.  If your heel doesn't, like Rory or a lot of other younger guys, then that's fine too.

    Actually TRYING to lift it (or not lift it) seems like more thoughts and more moving parts than necessary.

    Disclaimer:  I'm not an instructor and MAY be talking out of my butt. :-P

    Very true.  I have found that my flexibility is good enough to not have to lift it at all. 

    But for those of you looking for further verification, here is a quote directly from Hogan's Five Fundamentals: 

    "Let me caution you against lifting the left heel too high off the ground during the backswing. If the heel stays on the ground--fine.  If it comes one inch off the ground--fine.  No higher than that, though.  It will only lead to faulty balance and other undesirable complications."

    Bubba is his own breed of golfer, and wouldn't use him as an example of this.


  13. On 1/23/2016 at 9:02 AM, Vinchenzo561 said:

    @TheDIYGolfer could my ott swing cause me to hosel one every now and then really bad? I did notice my ball position a little off after you mentioned it. I had my positions all wrong lol. I will work on that drill aswell it's just a little hard to see where he is actually putting the basket. 

    I can't say that is the only reason for the hosel rockets, but definitely could be.  I think you'll find that putting that ball forward might solve more problems than you would imagine. 

    I used to get off with my ball position, but eventually I got so tired of finding out that the ball was too far back/forward, I check it EVERY time I hit balls now at the beginning of my range session.  This has made a world of difference in my consistency since I always know that my ball position is good.   

    And for that drill, just set up your club to the ball, and then place the basket about 2-3 inches in front of the club.  Then, move the bucket back away from the target about half a foot so that you are required to miss it on the backswing.

    For an OTT swing, this drill will frustrate you a lot, so if you're having troubles, make sure and do a lot of slo-motion rehearsal swings (seems to help me at least).

  14. On 1/3/2016 at 11:28 AM, alienator said:

    You could be on to something with the steering. I have had issues with thins and fats and I felt it really destroyed my ability to score and have made it one of my priorities to fix. 

    I played baseball, basketball and ran track in high school and was very good at them. Lots of home runs, held a school record in the 200 until just three years ago(I was a sprinter), but then again that was 22 years ago, maybe I just am slow haha.

    I wonder if the Overspeed training I have read about would help in my case. I don't want to become one of these guys that is on a quest for speed and that's it.  Honestly accuracy for me would be my main goal. I do find however that my distance, compared to my playing partners that play at a higher level than me, is a lot shorter. They hit 9irons and wedges into greens that I hit 5irons and hybrids into. I was standing across the fairway from a playing partner and he's hitting a 7iron and I had my 3wood and we were withing 5 yards of the same distance from the green and both hit the green.

    Although the 70-74 mph swing speed seems a bit low, you definitely give up some power on your downswing.  If you watch your FO view, you'll see that the second that you start your downswing, you have almost completely shifted your weight to the lead leg.  

    When you get over to your right side so soon, you actually end up having to throw your hands a bit, get out of sequence, and lose the speed.

    Since you played baseball (hopefully you were left handed there as well?), I'd say think of the weight transfer in the swing similar to a pitching motion.  You load back on that left leg, then push forward with that same leg INTO your right leg. 

    I've posted this drill video quite a bit here it seems, but it helped me SOOO much that I can't resist- 


    Now obviously, you'd be reverse of this, but I think you get the point.

    Try this drill out.  It's actually pretty tough - just remember to hit the ball and THEN plant that lead foot (as you can see in the video).


    • Upvote 1
  15. On 1/20/2016 at 0:54 PM, Vinchenzo561 said:

    Thank you very much colin007 for the feedback. I do seem to struggle with popping my head and shoulders up on impact, and sometimes the left foot spins and comes off the ground. could that be an early release or extension? I also feel that my swing might be kind of flat? I can never seem to get into my drop. My videos always look like I come over the top a bit. I really appreciate your response. I will post a face on asap. Thanks. 

    Ya definitely a bit over the top on the way down.  Try the drill in the following video for a couple weeks: 


    I'd say before you try changing anything within your swing, you might check your ball position, because it looks a bit too far back in the stance.  Other than that, you're looking really solid for only getting after it for two years!!

  16. Absolutely loved this article!  Although I don't struggle to the extent that Kevin does, I've woken up from lots of golf nightmares, and competitive golf has been a struggle.  I feel like I've had to practice way more than some of my peers who have a more natural instinct for performance. 

    This seems to me like a classic example of someone pursuing a career that they weren't naturally suited for, and succeeding.  He's definitely an inspiration to golfers who constantly battle their minds out there on the course!

  17. Sorry for such a late response, but yes, the shoulders are a KILLER for me sometimes!  

    I always have to remind myself to turn the shoulders rather than complete the swing by making my hands travel further. 

    That being said, I also have struggled with reverse pivots, hence that sway (overcorrection) you see in the swing.  Trying to get it a bit more centered now.

  18. I've been Playing Golf for: 7 years
    My current handicap index or average score is: 73 (I don't keep a solid handicap - making it a goal to get better about this in 2016)
    My typical ball flight is: my natural flight is a fade, but I most commonly will play a small draw (2-5 yards max).
    The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: I cannot stand it when I hit spinning pull fades!!! 

    Sorry this isn't in slow motion, I had some encoding issues getting the file to Vimeo in slo-mo :(  

    I take lessons from a swing coach where I live, but definitely open to suggestion with that slight over the top motion that I've got.  My body just loves to move left too soon... (especially under the gun)




  19. I'm sure we've all gone through it, but I finally got my swing feeling like money, but my putting went down the drain!  I can't explain how frustrating this has been, as I've been working so hard on the swing just to be let down by the flatstick.  I thought instead of venting to the people I normally bother with my golfing woes, I'd bring it to the forum.  


    So the question:  What frustrates you most about golf? 


    Aside from my putting woes, here are my top 5:


    1. Practice sessions that end with me wanting to break every club, and feeling like I got worse

    2. Not being able to bring my swing from the range to the course

    3. Nagging swing thoughts (don't go in the water, don't go O.B., you're due for a miss, etc.)

    4. Bogeys from the middle of the fairway

    5. Conflicting golf advice


    I'm interested to hear everyones!

  20. I ponder this question often as well. I see a swing coach regularly and his feedback trumps whatever else I take in (certainly on the fundamentals). However, I am also constantly reading and watching all things golf (Golf Channel, YouTube, this forum, various books..).

    From a practical standpoint, there are a lot of skills and scenarios in golf. Seeing a Pro for 45 mins every couple of weeks is just not enough to cover everything. As an example, I watched & studied Phil Mickelson’s video instruction on the short game (ala hinge and hold). After practicing this and adding to my tool set, my short game improved significantly.

    Ultimately, I think we learn from multiple sources and experiences.


    Definitely agree!  Unless you are Jack Nicklaus who had Jack Grout standing by his side every day growing up as a kid, you need to reach out to other places to learn.  I'm a huge advocate of YouTube and books personally, but watched my fair share of Golf Channel when I was just starting out.  

    Now, I feel like I've got a solid base of knowledge as a culmination of all the sources.  Definitely still have lots to learn though, which is why this game is so addicting!

  21. I take advice from the best of the best and less teachers.. Instruction from Greg Norman,Jack Nicklaus,Tom Watson Tiger woods etc.. They offer little tid bits that always make sense and of course it's great because they have careers to back it up.


    ''Those who can't do try to teach''

    Love this!  I learned this game from all of those guys so I totally agree!  Thanks to YouTube you can watch professional golf clinics for days from these guys!

  22. I'll take a quick stab at it and then if I change my answer upon further reflection (pretty busy string of days here, so it may be awhile), I'll do so.


    Because the ball is "out there" and "down there."


    The ball is out away from us, so I think a lot of people swing "out there" to try to hit the ball early in the downswing. This is also exacerbated because the ball is "down there" and people are not used to swinging along the ground to chop at something on the ground - they're used to swinging down at it, like you would to chop a piece of wood sitting on a low stump.


    The target line doesn't help either - people want to get the club "out" to the target line quickly.



    Another thought: people when they first learn the game tend to leave the face open and hit shots way right. The instinct is to then swing left (even though start line is governed more by face, "path is instinctual").



    In other words, it's instinctual to swing out and then down. Whether because of the first reason or the second.


    P.S. A lot of girls play with heavier clubs, and for them it almost seems like the opposite: it almost seems like the heavier club means they can't throw it out quite as much from the top, so the club drops behind them and they jump to generate speed, both (heavy club which falls behind them in transition, jumping which stalls body pivot) of which help the path be OUTward quite a bit.

    I think I agree with this?  I would rephrase and say that it is instinctual to swing left.  If you are a right handed golf, the intuitive motion to hit the ball where you want it is to swing left.  Since we are facing roughly 90 degrees from our target, it makes sense to try and swing to the left, although the correct motion is to actually come down the right leg and THEN use the pressures in the feet to go left.  

    Basically, I think that everyone just wants to get left too soon!  Including me :(

  23. I just read Rotella's new book, How Champions Think: In Sports and in Life, and absolutely loved it!  It really got me thinking about my thought patterns off of the golf course.  

    One of the topics in the book talked about swing coaches, and how to find someone you know is good to listen to.  I thought this was the best part of the book, because it made me realize how many sources I was trying to improve my golf game from!  I have a swing coach, but was constantly going on YouTube for instruction as well.  I found that the mixed theories are extremely harmful to a golf game.  Definitely been playing better by sticking to what my swing coach tells me, and politely ignoring any other volunteered instruction (unless of course it deals with something other than the actual golf swing). 

    Just thought it would be cool to hear from everyone where they get their golf instruction from?

    Also, for a little bit more discussion, I pose this question:  Do you think that Tiger Woods would have reached 18 major championships by now had he stuck with ONE swing coach for his entire professional career (a.k.a. Butch Harmon)?

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