# Will

Established Member

73

## Community Reputation

0 Sandbagger

• Rank
Weekend Duffer
• Birthday 11/30/1952

• Handicap Index
6.2
• Handedness
Righty
1. ## problem with handicap system

You're kidding. I urge everyone to read the above quote three times, without gagging. I asked for some concrete examples, and that's what I get. I think I'm beginning to understand what's going on here. Go ahead, cloud the issue with "fancy math", as you put it. Ignore the issues that I've taken the time to carefully point out, continue to offer theoretical rebuttal to real problems. Increase the bandwidth. Have fun. I'm off to discuss the issue with the USGA.
2. ## Anyone played Sand Hills?

I'd like to do a trip up there, the articles I've read say it's a great course in an out-of-the-way place. A new course, in the top ten in the world. I wonder.
3. ## problem with handicap system

Pretty impressive amount of bandwidth. Two lengthy posts, lots of math. Only, can you link me to some USGA publication that references bell-curves and standard deviations? Ones which specifically address our issue? I'd really like to know, can you give me a link? You seem to be trying to justify the handicap error by postulating some sort of known distribution. Then you say you can't substantiate said distribution. In fact, the USGA never considers the issue in that light (to my knowledge). The issue remains: There is a bogey rating for all golf courses which establishes the expected
4. ## problem with handicap system

Again, you are correct.
5. ## problem with handicap system

Ok, I've reviewed the USGA letter. The author seems to be entirely wrong, due to the fact that slope is derived from the bogey rating, and should only apply to scores above the course rating. (slope = bogey rating - course rating * 5.381) The author doesn't seem to understand that simple fact. His discussion regarding the slopes intersecting at the beginning of the article makes that clear. It is he who is confused by the negative differential. He also makes other mistakes, like using handicap index several times in place of differential. The system would work if there were a reverse sl
6. ## problem with handicap system

Big Lex, Nice post; I've learned a lot as well from the discussion. (Sorry for quoting your entire post, but sometimes it's hard to follow threads around here.) Just to add some more fuel to the fire, I just got a reprint of a letter from the USGA addressing the slope issue. It looks like it might be the Knuth letter, but doesn't specifically say so. It is written in a very confusing style, and will take me quite a while to dissect it. I'm attaching the letter to this post. But a warning for the faint of heart, it will make your head hurt.
7. ## problem with handicap system

Yes, that's right.
8. ## Dear Forum

Ok, I appreciate that you took the time to respond, and we'll just have to leave it at that. Obviously we don't see things the same way. End of issue.
9. ## Dear Forum

Sounds good to me. I travel to Santa Fe frequently on business, but don't know much about New Mexico golf. Can you give me some pointers?
10. ## problem with handicap system

I heard back from a fellow on the USGA handicap committee, they are interested and want to study it a bit before officially responding. Also, the pro at my club forwarded my analysis to his contact at the USGA, who has responded that he initially agrees that the handicap formula is incorrect. More to come soon.
11. ## problem with handicap system

I contacted Dean Knuth about this, and explained the issue. He said he thought the current system contained no errors regarding negative differentials. He also said he had written a 1-2 page memo to the USGA a few years ago addressing the topic, and to ask them about it. I did, and will post the memo when I get it.
12. ## Dear Forum

Interesting take. As a former moderator of a game forum, I understand the problems a mod must deal with. In my case, the forum was founded by the members, who elected their mods. We were governed by a charter, and could not, for example, simply edit a post without full disclosure to the poster and to the forum. I understand that you run this forum, so you can do what you want. If you wanted to edit my post and not tell me about it, or tell the forum, I guess that's fine. And I appreciate the fact that this thread is intact. As to not sending you a message, actually I did. It was to th
13. ## Dear Forum

In regard to your last question, I believe in the FAQ it says that admins can edit posts. It doesn't qualify that statement. That needs to be addressed. Your points are well taken, and I appreciate the support. For an admin to edit posts for the purpose of expunging material detrimental to his argument, and then to either not notify the membership of the change, or to give a spurious explanation (as in "rude comments deleted"), is to attempt to control the argument for his own benefit.
14. ## Dear Forum

EB is Erik J. Barzeski, or IACAS. I would be happy to discuss the issue with him. Ultimately, the issue is larger than the present discussion. To wit: is editing of members' posts without explanation or notification a reasonable poilicy? Does it promote or retard discussion? Does it serve the interests of the members, or of the admin? These are reasonable questions.
15. ## Dear Forum

I think he means well, too. I like his forum, and his podcasts, and his website. I can't really figure out what's going on in this case. I believe I've posted responsibly, and within the rules of the forum. I haven't had any email or communication from EB regarding this.
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