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4 Sandbagger

About FLOG4

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    Travel Dude

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  1. I follow the ratings quite a bit. Between the 3 major raters in the US...Golf, Golf Digest and Golfweek you will find a fair amount of consistency in the lists. I am a rater also. The process is not about the specifics of your day there. It's more about the skeleton, the architecture. But overall the truly great courses shine on all of these lists. The difficulty for most of us is how do you play some of these exclusive places. That is why I love to travel to Scotland and Ireland and the UK. Predominantly they let anyone with a cap below about 20 and the cash come and play. Can't do that here. Ultimately it's nice to have friends who are connected to play at great places but if you have those type friends you probably don't need them to play exclusive places anyway. I'll throw out a few hints how to play these great places. On the list provided here of Golf Digest I have played about 200 rounds. Ways to do it....Charity....One of the best ways organizations raise $ is charity. Golfers love to donate 4somes to orgs. You can buy them from afar. Charitybuzz and Biddingforgood are the 2 best. I have played The Country Club, Stanwich, Yale, Philly CC, Aronimink, Philly Cricket, Wolf Creek, Machrihanish....Ha by buying 4somes A few times they were 3somes and play with member. And those times the members were over the top gracious and accommodating. Charity outings...All of the truly great courses have charity outings. They aren't cheap. And you may have to do some investigative work to find out where/when..Once I had Fishers Island as #1 on my hit list. I found out the Rotary Club of Stonington had a charity outing...I called I think commerce dept in area. The gal knew the guy who ran it, I called him and the event was the next day and he had someone cancel out of his group...I said I'm in. $600 to play a scramble. Me and 3 guys who's caps totaled about 100. We shot 76 with 73 of those shots my ball...Ha Man up and just call places....Some places are in need of some revenue at times. or the Pro will just pocket....Southern clubs from May 1 to labor day you have a good chance to play. Northern clubs before May 1 and after labor day a good chance. I once walked into Cypress Point and had a chat with the pro.. He laughed but we had a nice chat. I grabbed a scorecard and some pencils which was my real plan anyway. With many of the over the top private places.....the members many times are really good people. They know they are fortunate to be where they are and don't mind showing off their place to the little guy.....Find em and just ask....
  2. Meadows Farms in Virginia.....defines quirky....A par 3 built with a little league baseball field on the hole. Tee behinf home plate, green in center field...another par 3 with an island green set inside the foundation of an old mill. So you face a waterfall with the moat around the green. And then there is an 800 yard par 6...It's a decent course otherwise with these few surprises.
  3. For a while I use to seek out the toughest courses in the world. I don't step to the back tees often except when the moment seems right. Bethpage Black last day you could play prior to US Open at 7500 yards...Ha, A few 270 carries to get to fairway. Shot 96. Whistling Straits last day before PGA at 7000 yards. Not all way back. Kiawah Ocean is able to stretch to bring anyone to their knees. Carnoustie is just always trying to mess with you. Waterville in Ireland seems so nice until you look at your card and say WTH....But pound for pound the toughest course I have played is Tobacco Road. At 6500 yards it slopes at about 150. The little nuances just grab you. The diagonal greens which require precise distance for the direction the ball is going. I have heard that Koolau in Oahu is the toughest by many. I have not been there. A crazy little place which is much like Tobacco Road as in short and huge slope rating is the Shattuck in Jaffrey, NH. Well worth a visit if in area. I did play The International in Bolton, MA from the Tiger tees. They were named before Tiger Woods...8325 Yards...and played those tees in 1997.....
  4. Golf Shoes

    Kinda late to this but the ECCO shoes are really durable. I typically buy shoes right now. The discontinued styles go for 1/2 price. A few outlets have some ECCO's that are normally $200 for $100 now. I usually plow thru a pair a year buy the ECCO hybrid I have now 2 years and are still going strong.
  5. For many years I have collected pencils from the golf clubs I have played....I never really organized them, I just threw them in a bag.....The bag weighs 20 pounds....Ha...So I just organized them and realized there are many I have multiples of and some that I just don't have......So I am looking for barter partners. The pencils I am specifically looking for are Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Spanish Bay, Old Del Monte, Baltusrol, Irem[PA], European Club, Carne, Royal Dublin, Royal Troon, Machrie, Rosapenna, If you have any of these and collect golf items.....I have a lot of balls I have gathered but don't really collect.....lots of duplicate pencils. Many of which are Scot/Irish.
  6. Pinehurst/Sandhills Trip

    Was just in the area end of October. Have a bud who is member at CCNC and they have houses available to stay at. Pretty cheap too. I agree that no way Dormie goes private any time soon. They have whispered that since opening. A new owner won't change that immediately. Tobacco Road is one of my faves. I'm a big Strantz fan. It was in fabulous shape end of October. Played mostly at CCNC but if in area I have to play Tobacco Road. Plenty of great restaurants around area. No discounted way to play #2 that I am aware of. If you are playing as single I would believe you show up day you want to play, chat with pro and no way the sheet is full for all day. Unless putting out a grand for a night and a round is ok, I'd just show and expect to play sometime that day.
  7. The Old is the home of golf. I have been fortunate to play it 6 times. Only once with an advance teetime. The process to play there has changed over the past few years. If you travel at off season you could walk on no problem. As I travel with buds who wouldn't entertain that we are there in prime time....Around Labor Day you put in an advance app for the following summer play. Obviously the broader your options are the higher your chance to play. By mid October they will advise your outcome.....The problem is the other must play options while you are there are filling up simultaneously. You can bypass all of this by booking thru an agent who has times or at a hotel that does....But they utilize Old times as their primary income producer....So you will pay multiples of what the proper rate is. Meantime if advance app doesn't work and you don't wish to pay the exorbitant prices of agents/hotels there is the ballot. You input for ballot two days in advance. They post results afternoon of entry. You review that and you can see if successful but also how many openings there are for walk on. On average in the summer about 20. Every group going off will be a 4some. Unless there was no one there to fill it up. When I was there this August with 9 of us. We hit the ballot once for 4. On walk up on a day predicted to be rainy all day....3 of our guys went at 4:30am to find themselves to be 15/16/17 in line for only 22 openings that day. They were advised to be at pavillion at 11am. They came back, we went to breakfast. We had rented an apartment for all of us about a par 4 from Old. Upon finish they went back to apt and I went to starter. When I got there no one was hanging around. I asked about signing up and the guy said where are your clubs...I said 400 yards from here. He said it is 7:55 can you be on the tee at 8:20.......No way that was happening as I would have to bump 3 buds who have never played it. I said I have 3 buds on the list. He said get em here asap. I called and the 3 ran. One teed off at the 8:20 and very fortunately a father/son teed off at 9:00 as an R&A guy's two sons decided to sleep in on this rainy day. The skies cleared and as I came back with clubs, all of a sudden the place was mobbed. All those on the list before were hanging around. 4 of us decided to run over to Fairmont and play Kittocks.....
  8. FLOG4

  9. Amateur vs Pro putting stroke

    1. So I am to believe faster greens are harder to hold, harder to hit short game shots to, harder to position ball properly on the green and YET EASIER to putt. NO 2. With a speed of 5 no pro would ever have a putt over 15 feet. Short game shots are darts, irons are darts, 3 woods into greens are darts...Number of putts would be less. Where we disagree and where there isn't a proper comparison to measure is the average length of putt. On average at slow green speeds the pro will have a much shorter putt than what he will have on faster green speeds. With ultra fast greens every shot requires precision. Your drive must find the fairway, your iron must find the area that allocates a makable putt or at least not a 3 putt. Short game shots are impossible from short sided leaves.........And yet you wish to believe that even though every other shot is penalized by ultra fast greens, putting is easier.....Sorry I disagree. And candidly I'll just leave it at we agree to disagree. Pelz proroller confirms my premise with others that a pure roll which is imparted by a pure stroke is the perfect putting methodology. Any putt that breaks requires a combination of speed and amount of break. Die it in the front and more break is needed. Faster pace and less break. Two things about Pelz.....He has said every putt is straight if you hit it hard enough.....And here's where your premise is wrong....The proroller test was utilized without compensation for my above speed compensation analysis. One aim, various speeds will give you the result of faster green speeds deliver more putts made by the proroller. I agree. .........But analyze the misses and distance of second putts. The proroller test you refer to also indicates more three putts on faster greens. Slower greens create less three putts. Nice try johnclayton
  10. Amateur vs Pro putting stroke

    Given the rules.....The continueing improvement of long putters and their ability to create a purer pendulum by anchoring against the body is the essence to create a pure big and thru stroke. pool cue was banned based on concern for damage to greens as was the short putter that was used while kneeling down. straddling the line.....every analysis done on putting starts with position of the eyes to ball. straddling allows for an unfair advantage. golf digest current issue takes up this issue. the points made by several in this thread....not my words....putting experts per.....and we all know for every point there is an expert with a counter point....but the stats quoted speak to amateurs have a greater face rotation than pros. It is argued not by me but others that a pro is better because of less rotation. It then seems to reason that no rotation is best given any means available to putt. Given the rules state max 80% my guess is within the rules a slight rotation that responds with a putter at 80% is probably the best allowed. Note that change in my arguement. I'm moldable. Given proper reasoning. 30 years of actuarial execution of data sets can do that to you. But my point would be if allowed a 90% putter with a pure stroke back and thru would be more precise. The arguement regarding green speeds I sum up simply as The powers to be in Golf create the most difficult conditions for their Major Championships. If the putting statistics were true that slower green speeds created higher scoring our Major Championships would be played on greens stimping at 5.....not 14. Check out the scores at Torrey Pines 08, Pebble 10 they prove my thesis correct.
  11. Big Break - Ireland

    Another example of what pressure does to you. Most everyone reading this including myself can't relate to playing a round of golf that is career changing....Most reading these posts choke up on $100 nassaus.....The final was a tad painfull at times but the result was as I had hoped after Andy the most accomplished golfer of the group was eliminated.
  12. Amateur vs Pro putting stroke

    Amateurs have more face rotation than pros.....pros putt better due to less face rotation.....best ultimate performance is then realized with zero face rotation....that's been my arguement. The illegalization of putters that easily allow execution of putts with zero face rotation proves my point. The endeavor by each of us to strive for zero face rotation in the face of obstacles the USGA has put in place...max 80 degree shaft placement, can not straddle line of putt. That is my point. I've tabled my views. Thanks for the dialogue.
  13. Amateur vs Pro putting stroke

    I find arguements are proven when you analyze th extremes of the premise vs the norms. But for this we'll just do one simple point. Slow green speeds for this one to one analysis we shall say is the average PGA course during tournaments. Week in week out that is a green running at 11. A fast green speed is any green utilized during a major championship. During the Masters, The PGA, US Open and the British. Based on this the results of an average PGA event the putting stats should show more total putts than from an event where a major championship is held. If we are to believe that it is easier to putt on fast green speeds. The results don't show that.... For the average amateur the following analysis is more poignant. Day in day out at the club you play at whatever that green speed is we will say is a slow green speed. When you have your Club Championship or big tourney where the big money is bet like your calcutta we'll call that day your fast green speed. The courses I have been a member at during those days of the big tourney they cut the greens shorter and roll them. Day to day they don't do that. In that simple one on one I am to believe that during that special day of the big event it is easier to putt vs all the other days because the greens are faster? Utter and total BS.... Probably the best single analysis to my arguement is an analysis to the very few courses where a PGA event is regularly played...Torrey Pines, Pebble Beach are the two that come to mind mostly. Versus when they schedule a Major Championship at that course. So I am to believe that during the standard PGA event the average total putts is more than the average during major championships. No way, no how. The faster the green speed the tougher the putting. Look at the logic.....When it's the big tourney they want the play to be more difficult, thus they create faster green speed. Your margin of error on your pace and your aim is reduced the faster the green speed. If it was tougher to putt on slow greens they would create slow green conditions at major championships vs faster green conditions!
  14. Amateur vs Pro putting stroke

    If I were to buy into the logic that a stroke required for a 3ft putt is better than a stroke for a 5 ft putt, predicated on the theory that faster green speeds allow a 3ft stroke for a 5 ft putt......That's total BS. Yes if every putt was dead straight you might make that arguement and win....But Why does the USGA cut the greens of their Championships so they roll as fast as possible? Because they want all the players to score really well and have an easy day of putting? NOT. The faster the green speed the more difficult the putting. Case closed. Any arguement contrary to that is awash in self promotion. When you watch the very best players get intimidated on greens, its never because they are slower? A lip out on a 14 stimped green putt can roll ridiculously far, while a lip out on a slower putt will remain by the hole.
  15. Amateur vs Pro putting stroke

    What is your point exactly? None of the world's best putters employ a "pure back and thru stroke." They all arc. The face opens and closes on all of them. 90 doesn't exist because it's illegal, yep. Why is 90 degrees illegal? My point is it is illegal because allowing it makes the putting stroke easier and more efficient. What's your opinion on that?

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