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0 Sandbagger

About 3somers1

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    Victor, NY

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  1. I appreciate your candor and agree this horse is dead! I posted an 80 and slept well last night. Thanks to all for the input.
  2. Thanks for all of the input. It is clear that my first scenario on the opening hole is easy to resolve. I will score the hole as a bogey due to a lost ball. The OB issue is the more difficult issue to address. Martyn W posted the correct answer: the boundary stake should be replaced and the player should proceed as appropriate. The problem in my case this morning was that we could not determine the original location of the boundary stake. My partner and I determined that my ball was in bounds based upon (a) the location of the removed stake, (b) the line between the removed stake and the next stake, and (b) the condition of the area where my ball came to rest. Therefore, I played the ball as in bounds and scored a bogey (if I missed the bogey putt there would be no need for this thread because I would have recorded a 7). The method we used to determine if the ball was in bounds or not does not conform to the correct procedure/rules because the original location of the boundary stake could not be located. DaveP043 makes an excellent suggestion of posting par plus handicap to resolve the problem since it appears I may not have played the hole in accordance with the principals of the Rules of Golf. However, I did not get a stroke on this hole based on my handicap so the score would be par. This does not seem appropriate as par was not my "most likely score" since I finished the hole with a bogey. [ NOTE: Thanks to DaveP043 because the information he provided helps me understand how people record scores for handicap purposes when taking "gimmes" for short putts. While researching his comment, I found Section 4-1/1 which states "'most likely score' is a judgment that each player must make based on the player's own game. It consists of the number of strokes already taken plus, in the player's best judgment, the number of strokes needed to complete the hole from that position more than half the time. The player must evaluate each situation based on what the player can reasonably expect to score."] The last option is to take a 7 on the hole as my ESC to err on the side of caution. However, I keep coming back to the fact my partner thought it was in bounds. We are fairly competitive. Therefore, I think he would have declared it OB and made me play pursuant to Rule 27-1 if he thought it was OB. The reality is that I either score a 6 or 7 (ESC) on the hole which makes my score an 80 or 81. The one stroke is not going to greatly change my handicap index. I'm simply trying to figure out the most fair and appropriate answer.
  3. I have a scoring question that comes from two scenarios in my round this AM. The answers to the questions determines how I should record my score for GHIN. The first scenario pertains to a "mulligan" or "breakfast ball" off the first tee. The first hole was a par 5. I hit a bad first tee shot which clipped a tree and neither of us knew where it went. I decided to hit a second ball. My partner and I agreed we each got 1 mulligan during the round (which we normally don't do). We did not find the first ball. Long story short, I shot par on the hole with the second ball as a mulligan. Otherwise, it would be a 7 with a stoke and distance penalty for the lost ball. The second scenario pertains to an OB ruling on another par 5. I pulled my approach shot and found the ball very close to OB. The ball was laying in the rough, but it was close to the high grass. Therefore, it appeared to be in bounds at first look. I then looked for the OB stakes. The OB stake to one side was standing upright. The OB stake to the other side was lying on the ground in the tall grass. I almost missed it because it was knocked over. I could not determine where it was supposed to go in the ground (the bottom appeared broken). There was a bush in between my ball and the OB stake on the ground that hung over what would be the OB line. The bush and tall grass made it difficult to determine the line for OB (especially with the stake lying on the ground). I think it was either on the line or OB, but was not certain. My playing partner looked at the situation and stated it was in bounds and I should play it. I shot a bogey (6) on the hole. My ESC for the hole is a 7. It is my understanding that OB is the nearest inside point of the stake at ground level. Therefore, the measuring point for the stake laying on the ground was the bottom edge nearest to the course. Also, I understand that a ball is OB when the entire ball is beyond the line. In this case, it was very difficult given the circumstances to determine if the ball was OB or on the line. Question: Am I correct regarding the OB line based on the stakes and the ball being OB if it is completely over the line? I shot a 78 this morning if I record a par on the first hole and a 6 on the hole with the OB question. The score will effect my HC so I want to record the appropriate score. I see my scoring options as: 1. 78 - The first par was a par because I essentially restarted the round. The OB question was resolved by my playing partner when he determined it was in bounds. 2. 80 - The first par should be recorded as a 7 because the first tee shot is a lost ball (or ESC of 7). Again, the OB question was resolved by my playing partner. 3. 81 - The first hole is a 7 and the "OB hole" should be recorded as a 7 (ESC) if it wasn't definitely determined that the ball was in bounds (although the circumstances made that difficult). My thoughts . . . I should record an 80. In tournament play, there are no "breakfast balls" or "mulligans" on the first tee. Therefore, the first tee shot was a lost ball and I should record a 7. I believe the OB question was resolved when my playing partner agreed the ball was in bounds. That said, I don't want someone to think I am a sandbagger because I record an 80 when I shot a 78 (with a restart on the first tee). I know I am overthinking this a bit. I am sure that many people record their scores after taking mulligans or taking a 3 foot gimme offered by their playing partners. In fact, I often play early as a single before work. In the past, I didn't always pull the pins in order to save time. If I am brutally honest, I should have added 2 strokes to those holes or not recorded the score; neither of which would have resulted in an appropriate HC index. Thanks for your input!
  4. There is enough of a question in my mind that I do not feel comfortable claiming I shot a 78 free and clear of a penalty. I am 100% comfortable taking a 7 on the hole and recording an 80 for my HC index. I will continue my journey to break 80 (with a clear conscience). At this point, I am hopeful that it will come sooner than later. Thanks again for all of the input!
  5. Thank you for the replies. For GHIN recording purposes, I realized I can only take a 7 on the hole due to ESC and my current HC index. Without the penalties, I recorded a 5. Therefore, I have changed the score to a 7 and adjusted my round to 80. To err on the side of caution, I would record two violations of Rule 18-2b for a total of 4 penalty strokes (or 9 on the hole) if this was tournament stroke play. I am 90% sure the ball settled in the rough after I addressed it the first time. I am also 90% sure the ball started to move before I started my stroke when I addressed it the second time. Therefore, two violations of Rule 18-2b. Again, I appreciate the input!
  6. I have a few questions about a scenario I encountered this past weekend: I hit my ball through a dog leg and it came to rest on top of thick rough on an incline. This required a simple punch out to the 100 yard marker, but what happened next left me with several questions. I thought the ball may have settled slightly down into the rough when I initially addressed it, but was not certain 100% certain so I did not replace the ball. I then addressed the ball a second time and it appeared to slightly oscillate or move in the tall grass as I started my swing. I cannot state for certain if it was still moving when I made contact. I went on to finally break 80 for the first time with a score of 78 . . . until I started trying to decipher the oscillating/moving ball rules and potential multiple penalties. Question 1 (initial analysis): Assuming I caused the ball to move with my initial address, I believe Rule 18-2 applies and I should have replaced it with a 1 stroke penalty. Since I did not, I should add a 2 stroke penalty to my score (and continue my journey to break 80). Correct? Question 2 (additional penalty #1?): Assuming the ball moved when I addressed it the second time, do I incur and additional penalty under Rule 18-2? Question 3 (additional penalty #2?): Assuming the ball was still moving when I hit it, should I add a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 14-2 for striking a moving ball? Needless to say . . . I have concluded I the 78 does not stand and I will continue my journey to break 80. I realize that I would have accomplished my goal of breaking 80 with a 79 if I was certain the ball moved on initial address and I replaced it with a 1 stroke penalty (and no additional issues with ball movement). Thanks!
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