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Posts posted by 70sSanO

  1. Well, Arizona is an acquired taste.  Sand is sand.  After a while all the granules start to look the same.  Kind of like that old soap opera intro.

    Both our boys ended up there.  I actually love playing golf mid-week in the Summer. Get a late morning tee time and you’ve got the place to yourself.  Winter brings all the snowbirds.

    We talked about moving there, or maybe splitting some time during the year, but in all honesty I don’t think we could adjust to the desert life.  It has to be a tough transition for you, especially from a place with all the trees and water.

    I don’t have a solution, but I wouldn’t think your other lifestyle changes are a good thing.  If you can’t find other interests, maybe find a part time job.


  2. Edited by 70sSanO
    · Report reply

    So I haven't been pleased with my putting lately.  It just seems like I have been fighting it on the backswing, and that is throwing me off.

    So I thought I would pull out a bunch of putters. like many people have and weigh them and see what the balance turned out to be.  This is not scientific since I am using a Taylormade Monza IB Spider as the baseline weight and using a digital scale.  I realize this only gives me overall static weight of the putter and not the head weight.  I'm just guessing at that since they all have small pistol grips.  The IB weighed 537gr and has a spec of 350gr headweight.  It has a slight toe balance.

    1930's Burke 15oz, 90* toe balance (Found in my parent's garage as a kid and actually used it a long time ago because I thought it was cool).

    1985 Taylormade TPA V 488gr 17-1/4oz, guess 300gr HW slight toe (First real putter that I used for a long time... Nevada Bob's).

    1990's Teradrops TD-xx 504/508 17-3/4oz, guess 315/320gr HW slight toe (Drank the roll face kool-aid a few years ago, they do roll nice).

    2008 Adams Mallet 523gr 18-1/2oz, guess 335gr HW face balance (Got this after wife took my IB, I loved this putter before Jim Jones got a hold of me... back in the bag).

    I have others, the 80's are around the same weight (slight toe, except one that is about 80*) and I have a Teardrop RFD that is "toe up" by 30* and is almost 19-1/2oz-360gr HW.  It is super stable... but boy I hate that one.

    I realize that my list is really low budget and most people wouldn't be caught dead with any of them.  But this was kind of an exercise in looking back at the years and also have some baseline for me.  I don't buy a lot, but I realize that I've picked up too much of the same that isn't working, at least for my current setup.


  3. On 11/20/2019 at 4:56 PM, ForePlayAce said:

    So my question is, do you guys think that it would be worth it for me to upgrade? I was thinking about seeing if the price for the TaylorMade M5 drops when they release their new 2020 driver.

    Since you are asking... probably now... especially if you bought that driver new.

    If you plan to keep your new driver for a number of years, do it right, research new and recent drivers, hit a lot of them, and get fit.  10 years from now the difference is negligible.


  4. You say your swing looks just as fast as 100mph swings on video, but that might be an overall view of it.  You might be just as fast for most of the downswing, but in reality the speed at impact is slower because you’re not accelerating through the ball.

    It would be interesting to see what your speed is without the ball.  I’m not an instructor so I don’t know if this is a good test or not, but if it is faster, you should be able to make adjustments that will increase you speed at impact.


  5. You’ll probably get as many suggestions as there are posts.  I would think you would be hard pressed to get a poor quality putter for $200.

    But you should know why you don’t like your current putter... weight, balance (face, toe), sight lines, feel off face, insert or no insert, etc.  If you can figure out what you really don’t like about it, you won’t just get a shiny object that you will eventually disdain just as much.  It might even be you just hate to look at it, or just don’t like it.

    Every now and then I’ll try a SeeMore.  I have yet to buy one, but for a SBST it seems to help to steady my stroke.

    If you are buying new and find one, come back in a couple days and see if it feels the same.  Maybe bring in your putter to compare.  The mind plays funny games.


  6. Obviously there is no most forgiving driver.  No one even knows your current driver and what you don’t like about it.  I mean I’ve had a few Ping drivers and feel they are pretty forgiving, but if your current driver is a Ping, that may not help you much.

    Things like swing speed, your typical miss, need to launch higher/lower, etc.  As the video above shows, there is not that much difference over the past 5 years so you can find something used pretty easily for under $200.


  7. My understanding is that it has to do with launch angle and not distance.  If a Mfg can achieve a certain launch angle it is a 7 iron, regardless of the actual club loft or the added distance.  Some of the extreme sets may not adhere to this, I don’t know.

    And as already noted, with thinner faces and all sorts of trampoline effects built into distance clubs, dispersion may not be as good.

    But, it might be worth your while to look into clubs newer than 2007 as technology has improved since then.  There are any number of really good condition used clubs that are a few years old that will cost you a lot less.  Do some research, hit some used clubs that fit your game and go from there.

    The only issue with longer irons, is that game improvement might work better for you than players irons, but it may mean getting a look you don’t care for, but they might give you an easier launch and more forgiveness.


  8. The part I’m wondering, per the article above, is if it not a part but put in place by tournament organizers, is it possible that some tournaments allow different balls to be played?  Or has it become pretty much a standard at all PGA tournaments?

    I can see how a particular golfer, say a DeChambeau, might want to use a different ball based on his “scientific” analysis of distance, trajectory, flag location, spin, etc., etc., etc.  But that process would only add a couple additional minutes to tee off.


  9. 2 hours ago, iacas said:

    No. Some people are completely sold on that.

    And Lemieux was a better hockey player than Gretzky.

    Crosby is great but he’s no Lemieux.

    Can’t disagree with Lemieux.  And you of all people can appreciate that a good number of those points came as he played through pain.  Despite his stellar career, it still is a what could have been.


  10. 8 hours ago, iacas said:

    That's not true. I don't give absolute weight to "18 > 14" or 15 but it's a "valid argument." Just not one that sways me.

    Actually that should probably include... or anyone else.

    To me it is an honest assessment of a head-to-head in their primes, (And I realize a lot of stats are trying to do just that).  But Jack was from my era and there is no way Jack, in his prime, could consistently beat Tiger, in his prime; Tiger wins the majority of them.  And I think Jack would feel the same way.

    Take Gretzky, no one would ever think he would be displaced as the greatest of all time, but I can see a time when Crosby could do just that.  Regardless of the numbers, every sport is getting bigger, faster, and better.  And there is no way Gretzky puts up the same numbers in this era.

    And, at the risk of being sacrilegious, I can see someone displacing Tiger as the greatest, regardless of the numbers.  It might even be 12 > 15 > 18.  I don’t, but that’s sports and no era has a monopoly on who future generations crown.


  11. 1 hour ago, billchao said:

    You're proving my point. Hogan isn't in this discussion.

    I don’t care about Hogan.  I just threw his name out as a what might have been.  He lost 3 years to the war and overcome even more medical issues than Tiger without 21st century medical procedures.  But his resume does not stack up.

    At almost 7000 posts there has not been a single post, not one valid argument, that supports Jack being a greater golfer than Tiger.

    Tiger is greater than Jack.  Jack’s strength of field will never be stronger.  But strength of field is always increasing, so who knows who the subjects of a future thread will be.  That is actually the best part of this.  All the words will disappear and eventually become irrelevant.


  12. Actually this thread is about Tiger and Jack, I only brought up Hogan because of the wins by era and his comeback.  And I never saw Hogan play.

    For this generation, and looking back, Tiger is the greatest.  I like Jack more, but I think Tiger is better, especially with his comeback.

    But no one should be deluded that 75-100 years from now there won’t be another player that will the the real GOAT in the mind of that generation.  Generations root for their guy/gal as the greatest, and they will have their stats to back up their position.

    When we are all dead, no one will care about someone who played at the turn of the century.  Life moves on, celebrate the now and let it go.


  13. 2 hours ago, turtleback said:

    He might have won a few more regular tour events, but it is really hard to claim that he would have won more majors than he actually did, considering he won 6 of the first 9 majors he player AFTER the accident. He was already over age 40 when he won his last major, the last of his 3 in a row.  Other than the rare physical specimen Snead, players rarely did much after 40.  Hogan stayed competitive in the majors after '53 and finished 2ND in a major 4 times, but it is more likely to have been nerve and age that kept him from winning, IMO, rather than the accident.

    It was a miracle that Hogan could even walk after the head-on collision.  He couldn’t play many tournaments after his accident due to his injuries and was in pretty much constant pain.

    I’m not saying Hogan would get to 18 majors, but as much as we applaud Tiger for his masters win, he wasn’t exactly scraped off the pavement.

    Also when talking about the different eras, where would Tiger be with mid-20th century medical technology in getting him back on the course.


  14. Of course it was easier to win tournaments years ago.  In 1945 alone Byron Nelson won 18 tournaments, but congrats to Rory, and won $63k.

    It was, and to some extent still is, a rich man’s sport.  But there is more access today and, someone with talent is able to play college golf and potentially find a career somewhere in golf.  It is a multiple billion dollar industry.

    I know this is about Tiger and Jack, but one does have to wonder how many Hogan would have won if that Greyhound bus was never on that road.  His success after the accident might dwarf what everyone else has accomplished.


  15. 2 hours ago, djake said:

    My father passed down to me showing me how to be very involved in my athletics while never ever pushing me into athletics and that includes golf.  He was the greatest coach I have ever had in my life and many people that he worked with in golf would say the same.  I was fortunate to have some amazing coaches in my life.


    And you seem to have inherited those same traits.  I am very happy that your daughter is doing so well with golf.  It is hard to describe how rewarding it is to share a pastime with your children. Congratulations!


  16. On 10/15/2019 at 2:06 PM, djake said:

    Hmmmm - this is always an interesting discussion.

    Speaking of this summer from first hand observations of 5 new(er) golfers, all in the 21 to 25 year old range.  All getting golf clubs for the first time.

    Group 1

    2 of them were told "all you need is this" and the "this" were from the bargain bin at 2nd Swing.  Cost maybe $100.00

    Group 2

    2 of them went to 2nd Swing for an unscheduled semi-fitting that anyone can get walking into the store.  Definitely an above average club fitter working off of a flight scope or similar equipment.  They both spent $1500.00 each on an entire set plus bag.  The putters were Evenroll and Scotty Cameron, both ended up with Mizuno irons, hybrid.  One got the Mizuno 180 Driver and the other got the Titleist T2 Driver - the clubs were all used except the Scotty it was on one heck of a sale!  All of them looked new and would have rated out at a 9+

    Group 3 (if you can call 1 a group)

    Last one scheduled 2nd Swings Tour Fitting Session - budget $1500 for an entire set.  She ended up with new Ping putter, used Ping irons (Fitter really debated on what to do here) Ping G410 Driver with an aftermarket shaft, it was barely used she did not need a new bag. She "loves" this Driver as well as the putter.

    Group 1 has stopped playing golf, they hated the clubs and did not like anything about using them.  

    Group 2 plays as often as possible, they go to the range and practice and want to start taking lessons.  They would tell anyone to do what they did for getting their 1st set of clubs, that is until they heard about the final Group.

    Group 3 is my daughter, golf is her choice and these are her words.

    She just started playing golf this summer, late summer.  She took a few lessons and had 4 different sets of clubs to work with at first. 2 lessons and 2 range sessions before her Tour Level Fitting, that was it.

    She would flat out tell anyone that going thru a full fledge Tour Fitting with a Trackman is the only way to go, even if you just started.  She learned more about her swing then any instructor could teach that is not using a Trackman.  She is working with a PGA Instructor.  She literally wants to be the very best at golf!

    Her words, going thru the Tour Van Fitting took all of the doubt out of the equipment equation.  She knows those clubs are right for her and she also now knows what to look for in her next of irons when she improves.

    Her Fitter said it was easier to fit my daughter into clubs then most golfers who had been playing.  The reason why, she totally trusted what he said and she did not come in with a preconceived idea of what she wanted or needed.  

    The irons he almost sold her were Ping I210s - he told her with her swing, even though she is new these were the best fit for her.  But he backed down at the last second, partly due to budget as the Ping G410 Driver while at a used price was still eating into her budget and it was obvious how much she liked that Driver as well as the Trackman clearly stated it was by far the best Driver she had been testing.  He sold her used G400s but made her promise to come back later for Ping I210s.  

    5 golfers, all in the 21 to 25 range. 3 are working at the game and really enjoying it, they want to play because their clubs are cool, fun to fit.  2 quit because their clubs sucked.

    To top it off, the 2 golfers that quit had more then enough money to get whatever clubs they wanted, they just did what they were told to do because someone who already golfed told them too.

    Moral of the story.

    You can get high level club fitting with a budget and walk out the door with excellent used clubs.  You can spend less then $1500.00 as well. Bonus at 2nd Swing if you do not like the clubs you can return them.

    Golf is hard for anyone at any level, the technology is there to help make it easier even if this is your first day out.  Why would you not take full advantage of everything at your disposal to help make it easer.   

    And finally, no one's swing is ever going to have a repeatable enough swing to wait to utilize the technology that is available today.

    Get fit,

    Get Lessons

    Get going,

    this is a blast of a game to play

    Unfortunately the real moral of the story is that your daughter has a well involved and knowledgable father who will encourage her and give her advice so she can enjoy the game as much as possible.  But it still has to be fun for her.

    When our twin boys were 11 they saw my old surfboards in the rafters.  For the next 10 years we got out as much as we could and shared waves together.  Our garage became the ding repair shop for their friends and we would shuttle everyone to the beach at least once a week.  Ironically both have ended up in Arizona, but dearly miss the ocean and we try to get out, they’re in their 30’s and I’m 68, whenever they come out.  I think there are still over 20 boards in our garage.

    But when they were 10, they got boxed golf sets for Christmas.  We would take them to the pitch and putt.  They have never become as proficient as they did at surfing, but we get out and play at least one round whenever we get together.  They have obviously moved on from those boxed  set clubs, but they play because they are able to do it well enough to enjoy it and have had someone there to play with and encourage them... to make it fun.

    I’m not advocating no fittings or lessons, but for someone starting out, and they have the athletic ability (a person has to have some physical ability to do any sport), having someone there to help them through is probably more important.


  17. Since this thread started on 2010, I don’t think the term overrated is even relevant anymore.  I’m pretty sure he’ll get into the HOF with his current resume.  His FedEx cup and European wins will help.  If he gets to 25 PGA wins and the career GS, it’s a slam dunk... no pun intended.


  18. The game has changed over the years.  I don’t follow Zac Blair, but the Zac Blair’s of the world need to hit the right place on nearly every fairway, have an impeccable iron game, and drain every putt.

    That is the only way to mitigate the 50 yard gap.  It may sound harsh, but if he can’t do that, who really cares if he gets penalized more?

    There are a lot of 90mph right handed pitchers in college that will never be signed.  Once upon a time 90mph was a pretty big deal, that is no longer the case.  No one is making a case for them.


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