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Ty_Webb

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Ty_Webb last won the day on December 24 2017

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About Ty_Webb

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    Well Established Member

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    New York

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    0.5
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    Righty

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  1. Ty_Webb

    Different Handicap for Walkers?

    I think I play better when I walk than when I ride. Two reasons. One is that walking helps my rhythm. My steps are like a metronome and that keeps my swing in (very slightly) better shape. The other is I have more time to drink in the surroundings. When I walk up to my ball, I'm typically coming up from behind it and I get a good idea of the lay of the land. When I ride, I get to the ball more quickly so I have less time and I'm frequently coming from another ball, so not up from behind. So I get less of an impression of the land and I'm not quite as well prepared. Both are very marginal and it could easily be just random variation, but the impression I get is I'm more comfortable walking and my scores are slightly better. Maybe a shot every other round kind of thing.
  2. Ty_Webb

    Table 6-5 (Tiger Woods Strokes Gained)

    Here is a way of looking at it. At the end of the week, the guy who wins probably had a good week putting. There is a lot of randomness in putting. A machine won't hole every putt even if you get hours to calibrate it over a 20 foot putt, it won't hole them all. People hole 20 foot putts, but they also miss them. They miss them a lot more than they hole them. Even the best. If they have a week where they hole more than their fair share they have a decent chance of winning. But no one holes more than their fair share every week. It's a lot more common for a player to have a day where they have a +4 strokes gained putting than it is to have a +4 strokes gained driving. But it's a lot more likely that the guy who averages +1 strokes gained driving will be at +1 strokes gained driving every week. That guy who does that and gets on a hot streak with the putter is going to win a lot more often than the guy who averages -1 strokes gained driving and gets hot with the putter from time to time. The reason that Tiger was so good for so long is because he was +0.7 driving and +2.5 approach every round. He could just putt average and be in contention, because he was beating everyone so hard from tee to green. Then when he had his good days on the greens, he'd obliterate the field. That wasn't because he was the best putter though. It's because he hit it close more than anyone else and gave himself the most opportunities. The problem with thinking back on your own rounds is that you remember the days when your putting was lights out, because those coincide with the low scores. But you can't putt lights out every time. Your putting on a given day dictates where in your typical range of scores you are going to wind up. Your long game dictates where that range of scores is. Take a scratch golfer. One who is a mediocre putter and pick anyone in the world to putt for them. They're not going to make it on the PGA Tour. Not a chance.
  3. Ty_Webb

    So, How Bad Do I Get Beat...?

    So you beat your handicap and none of them played particularly well and you lost $30. I think that says everything we need to know about the wiseness of the bet. Well played, especially making the 4 on the last under the gun. Very good job keeping it to $30. I hope they bought you your steak dinner with that!
  4. Ty_Webb

    Recap Your 2018 Goals

    1. We made it to the semi-finals this year. Not a win but a very good showing. 2. I didn’t qualify for the met mid-am 😞 3. I did shoot a round under par. Left it late but did it a couple of weeks ago. Last tournament of the year. I was leading after round one with a 68. The two guys ahead of me were the met player of the year last year and the met player of the year this year. Wagr rankings of 500s and 135. That was pretty cool. I felt like an impostor on day two and didn’t play very well. 4. I started doing this. My wedge game has got a lot better and I had a very good day indeed In the Long Island mid-am. Hit it OB off the 1st and made triple and then bogeyed 2 before finishing with a +3 73. Good for T7 and I got up and down from 70-100 yards 4 times and missed a couple of four footers that would have made it six times too. 5. Putting has improved a lot. My 68 included being about +1.8 strokes gained putting including a 3 putt on 18 from 6 feet 6. Two aforementioned events got me points on the poty. Achieved 7. Long game had good spells and bad spells. Overall I’m pleased with the good stuff. Given that I basically get to play a couple of times a month I can’t complain about my results. All in all I’m calling this year a success. Didn’t manage all of my goals but a couple of them were big time stretches so I’m happy with my year.
  5. Ty_Webb

    Failure To Include an Unknown Penalty

    Understood. But what are places like this for if not to discuss the esoteric stuff? Out of curiosity what’s the other?
  6. Ty_Webb

    Failure To Include an Unknown Penalty

    That person who drops in the wrong place is losing out because they didn't know the rules. They are incentivized to learn the rules because they caught a penalty for playing from the wrong place (assuming they were caught). They can't have gained an advantage for playing from that wrong place, or they'd have got the DQ penalty anyway (serious breach). Thus, they have paid at least something for their mistake. I'm not too concerned about that person. You mentioned people who hit it in a water hazard and just don't count the penalty stroke. That's the person I'm trying to hoover up. If they say yes they took a drop for hitting it in the water, then I would ask them if they included the penalty stroke. If they said they had, then I'm good. If they said they hadn't, then I would make sure they added it. They've learned something and no one loses anything. I get that you're upset that this incentivizes people to not know the rules. I agree with you. It doesn't mean that we just have to fall back and say "well f*#& it there's nothing we can do". There are things we can do. Like this. From my perspective, I never thought of the penalty for signing for a wrong score as being to incentivize people to learn the rules. You sign your scorecard and hand it in, what you're doing is saying to everyone else in the event "here is my score, I am confirming that it is correct and you can rely on it". If someone else sees your score, finds out that they are 1 back with 1 hole to go, they may change the way they play that hole from if you had written down the correct score. The DQ penalty was to fix that. The 2 strokes was also kind of to fix that. Now you're no longer having to make that promise. As I think about it, I think that with the old rules, you had an incentive to ask about a potential penalty when you finished your round. If you didn't and it came up you'd get DQ'd or another 2 strokes. Now, you have no such incentive because why bring it up? That's I guess why I think there is value in asking people if anything came up about which they are not sure. I like to think that most people will do the right thing in that situation. What really annoys me about this change is it seems like it's there purely because the perception is that Lexi Thompson got 4 penalty strokes for moving her ball an inch. I have never marked a ball and picked it up without knowing where I had to put it to put it back where I picked it up from. The fact that she wasn't able to do that and that has apparently resulted in this rule change makes my blood boil.
  7. I don’t disagree. I was sharing a way of framing it that I found helpful to understand what is supposed to be meant when saying that. I thought it might be a helpful way for someone to reframe the idea when they have it wrong.
  8. The best way I heard this put is something along the lines of "you should care about the result, but not worry about the result. Think of it this way - consider the two phrases, said to you by a loved one "I care about you" and "I worry about you". They invoke very different feelings. You should care about the result, but the goal is not to worry about it." From my perspective, I wound up in a playoff earlier this year. It was sudden death and the first two holes had water left. During the round itself I had played it a bit too safe and wound up in the rough on the other side of the hole. In the playoff, I had to get going fairly quickly, so I took the point of view that I was going to aim it at the middle of the fairway and if I ended up pulling it (which I had done a couple of times that day), then I would be able to get going quicker. I hit it straight down the middle on 1 and 2. The one on 2 wound up in a deep divot and I couldn't hold the green from there and I wound up losing. It was very interesting to see how when I wasn't worried about the result (what if I hit it left), I hit much better shots - the two best drives I hit all day in fact. Unfortunately I do worry about results on the course a lot and I find it very hard to get over that.
  9. Do you mean left elbow just beginning to fold? The right arms look very straight to me in all cases. One other thing I think would be nice to mention (since it's near to my heart) is left wrist angles in particular at A4, A5 and A6. Cupped vs flat vs bowed in each case.
  10. Ty_Webb

    Failure To Include an Unknown Penalty

    For the record, I wouldn't be simply springing this on people. I would make certain that everyone knew before they started that they had to ask if they were unsure about any rules situation that came up. Then I would reiterate that while collecting the cards. If it was kids playing, I would have whoever collected cards explicitly ask them if they had any rules situation where they took drops or had to do something other than just hit the ball again. Then if something came up subsequently I would ask them why they didn't bring it up when they handed in their cards. I don't think any of that would be "tricking people".
  11. Ty_Webb

    Failure To Include an Unknown Penalty

    If you read again what I wrote you’ll note that I suggested asking a further question “were you certain there was no penalty?” The comment you quoted here was referencing the response to that question. No need to read any minds.
  12. Ty_Webb

    Failure To Include an Unknown Penalty

    Okay. I’ll try this again. A player does something. Let’s suppose it’s hit it in a penalty area for sake of argument. It doesn’t matter what it is. They take a drop. The following encompasses all possible states of mind: - they know it’s a penalty and they are certain it’s a penalty. Hopefully this will be most people - they think it’s a penalty but they are not certain. These people should check before they sign. The exception requires them to if they want it to apply. - they “know” it’s not a penalty and they are certain it’s not a penalty. These people would not include the penalty and hand in their card. If called out on it they would say they didn’t know it was a penalty and the exception would apply (I don’t think it should but it certainly appears that it does) - or they think it’s not a penalty but they are not certain. These people should seek confirmation before handing in their card. By my read of the exception, for them to say they didn’t know would not be enough to apply the exception. They didn’t know but there was uncertainty and they therefore had an obligation to confirm with the committee. They didn’t do the exception doesn’t apply. asking the person if they knew it was a penalty before they handed in their card pins down whether they are in buckets 1&2 or 3&4. If they are in 1 or 2 and didn’t include the penalty then they are disqualified. Once they are in 3 or 4, asking them if they were certain would determine whether they are in 3 or 4. If they’re in 4 then I would think they should get disqualified. If they’re in 3 then the exception applies. But here is the thing. If a player doesn’t know the rules they are quite likely to say they were not certain because they didn’t know the rules. I’m assuming they have some level of self awareness. Maybe that’s a stretch. Like I also already said I don’t think this is a good thing at all, so I’m trying to figure out an interpretation that doesn’t give people a free pass to exclude penalty strokes and claim ignorance. There is a large window of opportunity for people to make mistakes that they may not have known were mistakes. The example you gave earlier of someone failing to take full relief from GUR for example. Or casual water. You may believe that you took full relief or you may not be aware that your stance must be clear of it too. I have more sympathy for people in that situation than I do for forgetting to add a penalty for hitting it in a water hazard. That’s because in the latter example there is only upside to not knowing that rule (under your interpretation). In the former example, you got an additional penalty for not knowing the rule. If you’d dropped in the right place, 9 times out of 10 it would make no difference to your next shot. It costs you a penalty for your mistake if someone sees you do it.
  13. Ty_Webb

    Failure To Include an Unknown Penalty

    See - that's someone who I'm not that worried about. I appreciate that you move in different circles from me and see kids out there who really don't know the rules. I just think that if someone is genuinely ignorant of the rules that they are going to run into so many penalty situations that they're not going to be someone to worry too much about in a tournament. Don't get me wrong though - I play plenty of golf with people who have no clue what they're doing. They move their ball and they take drops when they lose them, they take all putts "inside the leather" and all sorts. I don't care what they're doing for the most part, although it makes me laugh when they say "I shot 79 today". Yeah, not really. But those people aren't playing in tournaments and if they do, they'll find out fairly quickly that they can't do that. It would be hard to remain ignorant of the rules for very long. Much more concerning to me is the person who says they didn't know the rule when they actually did. And they did know them well enough to know that would give them a pass in this situation. That said, the more I think about this, if someone says they didn't know the rule, then I would say by definition they can't have been certain no penalty applied. The only way that you could get away with this (IMO) is to be adamant that it's not a penalty. Then you could claim you were certain no penalty applied and you'd be given the pass on the DQ (like Lexi was and Tiger was one time about a ball that moved when he moved something near it). If you say you didn't know, then I think you should fall foul of the uncertainty clause. That's why I'd ask them how they could have been certain no penalty applied. If they say "I didn't know there was a penalty", then you say "well according to this you have a duty to ask if you're uncertain, so this exception doesn't apply. Go learn the rules and next time you won't be DQ'd". I do think that would be a little harsh with an 8 year old say, but with anyone old enough that they should know, better to learn it the hard way now. If they say "I was certain no penalty applied", you give them the pass and tell them now they know and not to try that shit again. If someone knew the rule well enough to know to say that I would think that they were full of it and were lying about not knowing the rule. My opinion of people trying this would vary based on the penalty that had been missed. If it was a penalty for taking a drop for a penalty area, when they had followed the rest of the rule to the letter, then I'd think they were shady as could be. If it was for what Villegas did that time where he moved a divot and then his ball rolled back near where it was, I would be much more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Or Tiger's infamous drop on 15 at the Masters. It's 100% clear to me that he had no idea that was against the rules. If he knew it was against the rules there is zero chance he would have dropped it there.
  14. Ty_Webb

    Failure To Include an Unknown Penalty

    That’s what I’m shooting for. What bugs me is that if my interpretation were correct then Lexi would have got away with her infraction (at least the DQ/2 strokes additional bit) because her point was that she didn’t know she’d broken the rule. She claimed to know the rule but not that she moved it. A likely story IMO but I think that would meet the exception even if my preferred interpretation were the case. By the way, I do agree with you. I think that the way the rule is worded is a dreadful get out of jail free card for anyone who was willing to lie. It’s so bone-headed that I can’t believe that’s the intent of the ruling bodies so my efforts in this thread have basically been trying to cast the ruling body in a kinder light and figure out that we are misinterpreting their intent.
  15. Ty_Webb

    Failure To Include an Unknown Penalty

    This is what it says. “Or was uncertain whether a penalty applied”. I was attempting to figure out a way to be sure that uncertainty would always apply in the case of someone who didn’t know the rules. I would argue it does always if you don’t know the rules well. So in the case of someone who didn’t know the rules I would ask them how they could possibly have been certain that no penalty applied and see what they say.
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