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About TheZoid

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  1. Curious how you got to no rights for citizens, police state, etc....from me noting I didn't like it when decisions where made by people who know nothing about the business? Police departments not allowing certain restraints, the use of tasers, limiting speed enforcement, unjust firings over You Tube comment sections, etc... has led to many problems, officer deaths, apathy, etc... This is common knowledge in the police world... But, presumptive personal attacks seems to be a common debate tactic here...I'll keep that in mind.... Lets see.....J.B. Holmes..Solid college career...Walker Cup member, Q School graduate,Presidents Cup team....4 PGA Tour wins, looks like 7 professional wins total...roughly 22 million in earnings..... I'm sorry....he seems like he knows what he's doing...I'll send him a tweet that some nobody from New Mexico thinks he's a "jack ass"....I'll let you know what he says
  2. Wow...what insurance agency are you a mid-level manager at? A quality service or product generates customers....I go to doctors because they are competent...not because they have flat screens playing the Golf Channel is their rooms...I use the products I use because they are the best quality I can afford...not because the sales person provided me with a "Superior Customer Service Experience".....and I watch professional golf because they play a game I love at a level I wish I could...not because they take selfies with me after the round. ....and that attitude towards police has led to police and citizens dying when it could have been prevented. But, that's what I expect from people like you....you're the person I was talking about in my first post.
  3. This is an interesting point..... When I was a cop I hated people telling me how I should do my job...rules were changed based on peoples ignorant opinions and it has caused more problems than it has solved. I have friends in the medical field that complain about DEA and insurance companies dictating how they interact with patients....I know people in customer service style jobs that have been have had their livelihoods threatened based on some prick posting some pissy unreasonable review on a web-site. When you allow people outside a profession to decide how that profession should be, it always causes problems. While golf is entertaining...its a sport....and real fans watch it regardless. Tiger Woods has comically destroyed a marriage, DWI, drugs, blown off fans, yells profanities on national television, ignores children seeking autographs, and plays at the pace he wants to....and the sheeple still flock to watch him play.....and I'm glad....it's nice to see someone who isn't controlled by a customer satisfaction survey
  4. Last point I'll make on this topic, because its what the discussion is really about. The rule is subjective...the "committee" had no specific time laid out, and if they had...it would have been their option to enforce it. J.B. Holmes and the people that make up the PGA Tour are the best players on the planet....and that's just the pace they play. Your point on the etiquette...I suppose this is a fair point...apparently breaches of etiquette can result in disqualification. Start DQ'ing every player not ready to hit when its their turn and things would get weird out there in a hurry. .....blah....threw that curve ball right by me
  5. Are you HIM? ....or is the name an inside joke a newbie like me hasn't been made aware of yet? To answer the question, I don't know...I would have needed to be there. May have approached him at some point. But, the rule isn't clear. Seems like he would have needed to be warned, then placed on the clock.....whatever the procedure is.
  6. ....and in my view...being the prick that thinks he's entitled to never have to wait is "precisely the opposite"
  7. I get it....we need money...need sponsors....we want to keep it interesting for new fans...grow the game...etc.....I honestly don't care. I hated the "Tigermania" days....you couldn't get tickets to watch a tour event......if you did there were 9 zillion people there and it made it miserable. I know everyone made more money.....but, I wasn't a fan of being a spectator to that type of golf. I've always loved the tradition in golf...it being a classy polite game...it would be sad to see them have people follow players around with stop watches...it would invite an entirely new palate of controversies and problems...I just don't see it happening. I'm the biggest golf fan in the world....and I don't watch golf on T.V.....I watch replays on you tube...that's about it. I'd say its always been boring to watch. So I totally agree with your position on it possibly having some financial effects on the money side of the game... I don't know how well golfers would tolerate it.
  8. This seems like the only real measurable reasoning for the discussion. Also, changes all the bullet points....it goes from an opinionated sounding "hurry up!!!" to questions about when to air the tournament, do they lose viewership/fans/advertising dollars, etc...when players take time outside the time allocated for T.V. It would seem in this case they would do better to stop using words like slow...and start accepting the pace of play for what it is and always has been and start scheduling your programming accordingly. Repeating it doesn't change the vague wording of the rule that leads to the many different interpretations There are laws like disorderly conduct that are somewhat vague....and consequently rarely enforced. Stop signs, speed limits, etc... are not. Poor analogy on that one...........My point wasn't being a fallacy nazi...more just repeating the point that the rule is subjective. I later pointed out that when you try and put it in some kind of logical form, it breaks down due to poor definitions. I think for the discussion to really go anywhere.... they would have to re-write the rule and see how its received. I don't think it would be received well....but that's just my opinion
  9. It is, you're just being stubborn at this point...they use the word may...not shall... The inmates are the jail....the players are the tour....I don't watch golf that much...but when I do I love the long scenes of some no playing chop sitting in a cart wearing a blue shirt and tie waiting to tell one of those stupid PGA Tour players to hurry up....said no one ever. Again....the players decide the pace....if they wanted some strict shot clock rule to be there....it would be there....but its not...
  10. 1) The rule is vague so enforcing the rule is up to the opinion of the officials 2) The rules officials called no penalty 3) Therefore the rule wasn't broken It really breaks down due to the rule being poorly defined...."undue delay" can mean a lot of things......so there is simply no way to say with any certainty..... we are both right and both wrong depending on who is reading it
  11. So....whats the boundary? 4:29? 4:28?........ The Elk part was a joke....the idea was to emphasize it was a minority.... This makes my point....the PGA tour is largely run by players, when they want it changed...it will change...until then, it won't...because it doesn't need to I agree on the spectators being important....however, real golf fans will stick around 4 1/2 minutes or not...which is the steady state of the game. It seems like there are some post-Tiger-boom retraction issues that the golf world is trying get back...and I just don't think they can do it with annoying golf cart radios and cattle-prodding the best players on earth, but that's a different discussion. I've played in tournaments that dragged and ones that went quick....and it was based on the players and conditions....that's a players perspective ...and yes he was....because Noren understands tournament golf... Some did some didn't.....with out some polls its hard to say one way or the other.... To the reply about the time: 1) When on the clock 2) There would be strokes given daily if it was enforced, they're not...this becomes an issue when selectively enforcing rules 3) "undue" is subjective based on circumstance You'll have to cite the fallacy...Maybe an appeal to authority fallacy...but its a subjective rule...so it falls on those who enforce the rule. Very strike-zonish kinda rule.... Its a never ending debate.....because until some hard and fast rule is put in place and enforced (which it won't be), everyone will continue to think everyone is slow but them....and..."everyone plays slow but me....man they play slow....those guys on TV play slow"....has just turned into this bleating sheep background noise that I think should just be ignored....
  12. ...and none of those words have a time assigned to them. The other shots hit during the round weren't that shot...the rule wasn't broken. Speed limits have numbers....that's a false analogy. The sign says 65mph...not citations will be issued when speed is unwarranted. That's 4 players and Elk trying to get likes to promote his "Secret Golf" gimmick.... There are thousands of professionals world wide that play competitive golf for a living.....where is the outcry from the majority to hang shot clocks on the caddies? It doesn't exist because players understand that the pace of play in tournament conditions can vary depending on a lot of factors. In this case, the majority of players don't want some type of rigid time constraint placed over their rounds...the game is hard enough as it it.
  13. I do love the reactions like "...damage to the game...". Forcing the people that actually play the game for a living to play at the spectator’s opinion of what their pace should be would "damage the game". Responding to iacas… “I disagree. The rule is interpreted a certain way….” The rules officials, his playing partner, Justin Thomas….or the people actually involved in the tournament apparently didn’t think there was a rule broken. Therefore, the rule wasn’t broken “…0.40 seconds….4:30 is SEVEN TIMES…” This is used when players are out of position as a way to hurry them up. It isn’t a hard rule, no buzzer goes off at 0.41 and players aren’t penalized. This was a good use of perspective to emphasize your point, but….it's the 72nd hole, the player is trying to make the right choice, and its 4 minutes…in those circumstances...I don't see undo delay here at all “...again, you’re in the minority…” This is the element of the discussion I think is most important. While I’m in the minority…I’m offering a players perspective…not some guy sitting on his couch who fast forwarded through it anyways. The players supported him, because they understand…the rules officials left him alone…because they understand…Noren said nothing…because he understands…. I used to ignore people yelling at me while working a traffic accident to hurry up, because they had no clue what we were doing. They are just irritated because they think they are more important than the investigation I was trying to finish… I’m sorry, spectators don’t get to dictate the pace of play. This has gone on for years…in Curt Sampson’s book “Hogan”…he referenced players being angry at officials for pushing them around Oakmont and leaving Hogan alone. When you start pushing players and trying to selectively enforce arbitrary rules…they don’t like it. Again…the players and the rules officials don’t mind. They matter…the spectator’s selfish opinion doesn’t.
  14. 1) Hello Mr. Barzeski, I've enjoyed your site here for years and years....I don't add much...just not much to say...but I really appreciate what you have here. 2) I'll call that an appeal to popularity fallacy for the argument...But...The rule is subjective...there is no specific time mentioned. I've played individual stroke play tournaments on a off for 20 years, and I've learned to adapt to the pace of the group. If you can't, you're setting yourself up for trouble. In the 72nd hole of a PGA Tour event, million dollar payout, playing status on the line, a shot at what I know that player has worked their whole life for.......yeah....take a few minutes and hit the shot you want to....I'm in no hurry to get home...I like being out here. While yes, that's my perspective on how I would handle being his playing partner....I do realize some may think "....this guy is trying to put me on ice...", I would argue that's the same person that complains about the McDonald's drive through being too slow....and should alter what they CAN control..... their expectations. So, if I was J.B., I wouldn't worry about it....ADHD America will get distracted in a few days by a picture of Tiger's latest girlfriend, someone Chamblee pissed off, some comment Elk + a single barrel whiskey made on Twitter, or whatever and forget all about that 4 1/2 minutes......
  15. Pace of play is based on the players and conditions...being able to adapt to the pace of play around you is a part of golf...its a dead horse of a debate. I've always thought the pace of play argument is a great example of how important we think we are....think about it....doctors office, restaurant, police officers clearing an accident, the lady from AT&T helping me switch my phone service, the oil change place, the cashier, ANYONE in front of you at a red light, the credits at the beginning of a movie, etc.........all toooooooooooo slow....unless its you're the one on the other end... then I'm going as fast as I can to do it right... Never liked the argument....
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